600,000 Electric Cars in Ten Years - Your Thoughts??

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by mrsilverservice, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

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    How much do we pay for petrol in a year,now?
    Over a car's lifetime?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  2. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    I heard today if you charged a Tesla from flat to fully charged it would take 48 hrs :confused:charging it from your home without the 3k charger :eek:

    I also heard that the Dodge Ram trucks are in such high demand in Australia that the Australian factory for conversions has been forced to run a 24hr round the clock operation - the battle lines have been drawn between inner city pansies and real men :D
     
  3. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Agree 100%
    Anyone voting left is an entitleist on the prowl for a taxpayer funded freebie - no other reason to vote for them because their logic is BS.
    This hunt for the hand-out is usually masked by labelling any objectors as "greedy"... which is the word-trigger for my eyes glazing over.
     
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  4. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Study from 2017...

    Article below and also link to thee Swedish research institute that undertook the study.

    https://www.ivl.se/english/startpage/top-menu/about-ivl/organisation.html

    Study: Tesla car battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 years of driving on gas
    Published on June 20, 2017

    Written by Johan Kristensson

    https://principia-scientific.org/st...ses-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-driving-on-gas/


    Enormous hopes are linked to electric cars as the solution to the automotive industry’s climate problems. However, electric car batteries are eco-villains during their manufacturing. Several tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) are generated even before the batteries leave the factory.


    IVL The Swedish Environment Institute has, on behalf of the Swedish Transport Administration and the Swedish Energy Agency, investigated the climate impact of lithium-ion batteries from a life-cycle perspective. The batteries for electric cars were included in the study. The two authors—Lisbeth Dahllöf and Mia Romare—have done a meta-study, that is, reviewed and compiled existing studies.

    The report shows that battery manufacturing leads to high emissions. For each kilowatt-hour of storage capacity in the battery, emissions of 150 to 200 kilograms of carbon dioxide are generated in the factory. The researchers have not studied the individual car brand batteries, just how they were produced or what electrical mix they used. But to understand the importance of battery size, two standard electric cars on the market, Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S, have batteries of approximately 30 kWh and 100 kWh respectively.

    Even before you buy the car, CO2 emissions equivalent to 5.3 tons and 17.5 tons, respectively, gets produced. The numbers can be difficult to put in context. By way of comparison, a trip for a person returning from Stockholm to New York by air emits more than 600 kilograms of CO2, according to the UN organization ICAO’s calculation model.

    Another conclusion of the study is that about half the emissions come from producing the raw materials and the other half from the battery factory. The mining accounts for only a small proportion of between 10-20 percent.

    The calculation is based on the assumption that the electricity mix used by the battery factory consists of energy generated by more than 50% fossil fuels. In Sweden, the power production is mainly from fossil fuels, nuclear, and hydropower and why lower emissions had been achieved.

    The study also concluded that emissions grow almost linearly with the size of the battery, even if it is pinched by the data in that field. It means that a battery of the Tesla-size contributes more than three times as much emissions as the Nissan Leaf size. It is a result that surprised Mia Romare.

    Mats-Ola Larsson at IVL has calculated how long you need to drive a gasoline or diesel car before it released as much CO2 as the battery manufacturing produced. The result was 2.7 years of CO2 emissions for a battery the same size as a Nissan Leaf and 8.2 years for a Tesla-sized battery, based on a series of assumptions.

    “It’s great for companies and government to embark on ambitious environmental policies and to buy climate-smart cars. But these results show that one should not think of choosing an electric car with a larger battery than is necessary,” he says, pointing out that manufacturers should also address this in the design of instruments.

    Cobalt, nickel, and copper are recycled but not the energy required to manufacture the electrodes, says Mia Romare, pointing out that recycling is a resource-saving point rather than a reduction of CO2 emissions.

    Peter Kasche from The Energy Agency highlights the close relationship between the battery size and CO2 emissions are important.

    In some way, one must really make sure that you optimize the batteries. You should not drive around with a lot of kilowatt hours unnecessarily
     
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  5. projack

    projack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There is data on CO2 going back 8,000 years. The chart is from NASA. If anything, it demonstrates that there has always been a cycle and we never reached new historic highs.
    CO2-Carbon-Cycle.jpg
     
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  6. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  7. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    No doubt that this thread is dead and done :D

    I dedicate this final post about the expensive and unnecessary pipe dream to the serverely defeated Australian Labor Party who lost the unloseable Federal election on Saturday led by the now disappeared Silly Billy Boy Shorten :)

    R.I.P Billy now get lost :D
     
  8. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    $33k Battery Replacement For Nissan Leaf :confused:

    A first generation Nissan Leaf was bought in 2012,after 6 1/2 years the battery capacity had gone down to 63% ,the owner could barely get 40k's before the low battery warning came on :rolleyes:

    He took it to a Nissan dealer who refused the warranty claim because that is considered in the "normal condition" so he asked for a battery replacement quote.

    Nissan came back with a quote of $33,385.00 just for the battery ,surely this is ludicrous he said o_O

    "Has does Nissan expect to sell anymore Leaf's with pricing strategy like this" easy,because there is plenty of dopes with too much money willing to spend it telling the rest of us how morally virtuous they are compared to us ordinary twonks :D

    Or look at it this way -

    $33,000.00 spent on good old fashion petrol :D over 6.5 years averaging $1.50 per litre

    # 423.00 per week of good old fashion petrol :)

    # 282 litres of good old fashion petrol per week :D

    # 10 k's per litre equals 2,820 k's per week :)

    Instead you get what you deserve,a good old fashioned punch in the guts for being so full of yourself :D

    Source - Whirlpool

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    The Book of Proverbs Chapter 28 verse 6

    Better is the poor who walks in his integrity than one perverse in his ways though he be rich :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  9. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    Only rope suckers drive those.
     
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  10. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ...
    So, if you run your battery factory from a coal-fired power plant, the batteries have a high carbon footprint?

    Learn something new every day...
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  11. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    EV Battery don't work out in the long run. That's why I'm buying pt now on a fuel cell bet. It's risky as pt can drop more.
     
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  12. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Based on what Mike Cannon-Brooks is looking at doing, that's doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.

    If massive renewable plants can generate energy and store it in hydrogen format (somewhere safe and out of the way), there's a good future for grid-scale fuel cells.

    Putting seriously explosive hydrogen in metal boxes and driving them around might not be the best idea, so Li-Ion batteries may be the best option for consumer products like EVs but, for sheer scale, hydrogen fuel cells could store a hell of a lot of energy.

    Given Australia only has a 21 day stockpile of petrol, it'd be awesome to see mass renewables feeding hydrogen plants to release energy back to houses and EVs as needed. With the amount of sunny land and windy coastlines we have, we'd be looking at 100% energy independence.
     
  13. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    sell the printer ink, you spend more money buying the ink than the printer
    the toy cars adv, batteries NOT included...now if you buy a car, you need to buy the batteries as well
     
  14. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hydrogen is the future.

    we already have the infrastructure petrol stations ie remember when lpg wasn’t everywhere.
    2 minute refill and time to pay.

    South Korea aims to build 6 million hydrogen cars by 2040
    First mandate is government cars, buses and trucks
    Second mandate is taxi
    Third mandate is civilians

    hydrogen will be made with nuclear or wind power.
    much of the modelling has been done with data from Brazil ethanol economy. A high percentage of Korean live in high rise apartments where 30 minute recharge time is not acceptable
     

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