2020 Collapse

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by TreasureHunter, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. Michael Kay

    Michael Kay Active Member

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    One thing I'll give him, is he actually was self made, and at an old age (50+), unlike a lot of technocrats like Jobs and Gates, who came from rich families and had the capital and opportunities behind them.

    But Macca's. The brand is synonymous with everything crap that comes out of the US. If it wasn't for Kroc, someone would have come up with the franchising and real estate idea eventually.
     
  2. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'd wager that education is the key to all of this. People's stupidity is what's exploited by those markets, but any attempt to counter or control what's good for people ends up as welfare, socialism, authoritarianism and mostly a combination of all. Ultimately resulting in even stupider/uneducated people that can't think for themselves. Why the drug war is such a catastrophic failure - it inhibits the population's ability to educate themselves and make informed decisions. Instead people are further stupefied by propaganda and those that would rather take control of their own lives are starved of truth and punished instead. Those that understand the system and have a product to sell are entitled to profit from it, that's the nature of the unemotional capitalist beast - not a force of evil unless it's servicing an already corrupt system or exploiting uneducated consumers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You've misunderstood.

    If we consider economic truths in order to help us construct our paradigms such as the subjective nature of value and the concept of marginal utility then we gain a deeper understanding of individual choice and how political power should (and shouldn't) be wielded, classic cornerstones to both Austrian economic theory and Libertarianism.

    Now as far as Kroc goes he was an arsehole and McDonalds is shit (IMO) but the reason he became wealthy was because there are millions of people in the world who value what he produced and chose to make their lives richer by stuffing their faces with Big Macs and supersized soft drinks.

    It's not something that I take pleasure in mind you, just as I wouldn't jump into the octagon, but everyone is different. Their coffee is good though.
     
  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Gates and Jobs had talent, it's not enough to start wealthy. We've had this discussion here in the past, the talented make their own opportunities. Outsiders and the envious look upon it as luck, or just being in the right place at the right time which is not correct.
     
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  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Isn't that the key to everything and what has marked humankind's progress over the millennia? ;)
     
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  6. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes but I'm sure many wars could be fought on the topic of who, how and why a curriculum is determined..
     
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  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Most problems in the world are because people insist on forcing their values on to others.
     
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  8. ParanoidAndroid

    ParanoidAndroid Well-Known Member

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    Did Gates have talent? From what I remember he patented software that was open source and claimed it as his own.
     
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  9. Michael Kay

    Michael Kay Active Member

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    make their lives "richer"? What do you mean? Eating that crap makes your life worse, in all respects.

    And c'mon, luck has a lot to do with success. I bought my first gold Oz in 2005 and it tripled in value, because, y'know, I'm skilful. Same with boomers being so smart to forsee that their $50,000 1984 bought property would be worth a million now. Donald Trump is a good example of being born with a silver spoon in his mouth and little talent, yet he is seen as successful to some. He was no innovator. You don't need to innovate like Jobs or Gates to make money.
     
  10. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Some 15 years ago I had a phone shop in Balmain. Starbucks was to open a shop in the suburb against much protesting. It did open. One Monday night after a stocktake I went looking for a coffee, Starbucks was the only coffee shop open.
    A couple of years ago after a philosophy night, I gave a few people a lift home, at 11pm I went hunting a feed, Maccas was the only place open.
    Neither would be my first choice, but they must be doing something right!
     
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  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Obviously he's got talent or he wouldn't have become rich.
     
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  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm only interested in the economic aspect of it, not the health consequences. We consume goods and services because we either need them or they makes us feel good, in economics we call our capacity to do that "enhancing wealth". People enjoy eating Maccas because it enhances their life experience, you or I don't have to agree with them because value is entirely subjective.

    You made a decision to buy gold, there was nothing lucky about it.
     
  13. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If you want a reference point for stupid people or frauds with money then look no further than Kardashians or Dan Bilzerian.

    Gates had an edge early in life, as he had privileged access to computers (see the section ‘trouble makers’ https://selftaught.blog/bill-gates-microsoft/amp/) that average people did not, which put him far ahead in those times. It looks like he certainly had more luck than most, but he sure as hell capitalised on it with dedication/hard work as well.
     
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  14. Michael Kay

    Michael Kay Active Member

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    Well, no. It is not entirely subjective. Would you turn down expensive seafood, or a high-end steak over a Big Mac? Eating Maccas makes me feel poor, especially because that type of food is bought when one is both money and/or time poor.

    Consumption of goods and services adds to economic growth, no question, but I see fast food as a vice, much like tobacco, drugs and alcohol. They overall have a negative effect on productivity and put a major burden on social welfare and health services. "You are what you eat". Now, I do indulge in a KFC breast fillet or a single malt scotch every now and then (let's say at least once a week), but all in all, such things make you feel like (and perform like) shit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  15. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation.
     
  16. hardyakkagold

    hardyakkagold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Do you mean like meeting a hooker on the street with a roll of banknotes in your pocket, Sammy?
     
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  17. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Especially meeting hookers!
     
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  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Let's assume I like seafood, steak and Big Macs. The theory of marginal utility states that we consume those goods firstly that best satisfy our immediate demands. Therefore if I had satisfied my highest priority needs and eaten my full share of seafood or quality steak I would then turn to satisfying those needs that are of less importance such as a Big Mac and fries or maybe even a KFC fillet. The order in which I prioritise the selection of needs to satisfy is based on how much I value each good and as value is entirely subjective, our priorities vary from person to person, after all, eating prawns for 3 days on end over the Xmas period does get a bit tedious in the end. :p

    http://rationalargumentator.com/Menger_revivalofeconomics.html

    Many share that view, based upon as Menger had shown ie our values are framed by our "beliefs and entities, judgments and facts, mind and matter". I view them as goods that are best consumed in moderation, not that I follow my own advice at times, I enjoy going own a bender every so often or smoking a big fat cuban and tip my hat to those that help me satisfy that need and bring pleasure to my life. ;)
     
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  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    As @sammysilver said:

     
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  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy" is always a good easy read on the topic of wealth and opportunity.
     
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