thats odd as last year i picked up my 2 oz gold dragon and my 20 1 oz silver dragons from the mint. In fact my wife picked them up as i had to write them a letter saying it would be her who picked them up. i ordered them 2 days after they went online and picked them up ten days later. I paid by bpay if that helps. then again i am a little tired and i may have got the wrong end of this conversation.
I don't make the bullion orders but i'm pretty sure at the point of when you submit the order it says up to $1500 in bullion ordered online can be picked up from the mint. I'm just glad they accept paypal and make it very easy, just click to pay and it's on it's way!
I haven't bought from PM for a while now, I remember you could pay by BPay but I don't remember PayPal, maybe there was an additional charge which is why I didn't use PayPal.
Think this has slid slightly off track. My question was Silver Stackers Group buy or buy direct from the Mint Website (Bullion) on launch day?? What would you recommend and why? Cheers people!
PM imposes a limit of 20pp, not much of a group buy really Second thing is whether they can deliver on their promises
Thank you! Feel a bit silly for creating this thread now. Can anyone update on the history surrounding last year's group buy, which obviously didn't go well. Judging by Maggie's thread it's not stopping people this year.
Lots of disappointment all round. Basically if you can get them above the 20 that the perthmint is offering JUMP on it, emphasis on the IF
Quick question (before I join Maggie's EOI thread which is rocking!) ... There's some hinting that apart from operational issues (quantity restrictions/sites down blah blah), the price was higher at launch last year. Will the mint launch at "normal premiums"? If not, then I'd personally wait until the furore dies down. Or are folks who are keen to get in on a group launch buy hoping to flip some or all of their purchase quickly for a profit? (that's not me, I'm a stacker, not a trader). Curious as to the tactics and don't wish to be caught up in fake snake-mania haha!
From memory the price was high because silver spot was high on and before the release date. ready to be corrected.
OK - bear in mind that I am writing this with a bias - I will hopefully be offering some for sale closer to release date when I have an allocation CONFIRMED IN WRITING from the Perth Mint. Last year during the pre release of the dragon a lot of retail shops pre sold the 1oz dragons (in good faith) based on what they believed (rightly or wrongly) they would be allocated from the mint. Funds changed hands to lock in prices and people settled in for the wait with both sides expecting delivery of the said item. Worldwide expectations of demand were very high and people were scrambling to lock in prices/numbers. Everyone expected to be able to flip their purchases and make major profits (100% +). When the allocations came out - it was obvious that sales could not be met. A large number of Dragons were sent overseas and the local dealers were left with vastly smaller allocations than expected. There was no way they could meet what they had pre sold never mind the still growing demand. People were very frustrated (buyers, retailers and the Perth Mint) and a lot of accusations were thrown around, reputations and money lost. Perth Mint Retail Shop limited purchases to 1 roll (20 coins) and sold out within a very short time. When the dragons were released prices skyrocketed. They hit the sale board here and quickly surpassed $100 each. eBay was fetching far more. The problem though, was that after a short time - people realized that there was plenty to go around and that everyone who actually bought some - bought more than they wanted so they could flip them. Of course all this "flipping" meant that eventually all the "buy-at-any-price collectors" would have what they wanted and all the others that were holding for flipping would have to drop their price or be left holding unwanted stock. So now it was a race to the bottom. Even now - there are people holding dragons at prices that will not be seen again for many years. Any time the price increases the next load of "flippers" unloads their dragons keeping the price down. Of course spot could change all of this. This is not meant as accussing anyone or placing the blame at anyone's feet. The buyers bought in good faith, the dealers sold in good faith and the Perth Mint produced 300 000 1 oz silver dragons as promised. This is more as a warning to retail buyers. Come September there will be 300 000 1oz Snakes released and there is every chance that there will be a rush and that pre ordered/purchased coins will not be fulfilled unless your dealer has something in writing from the Perth Mint. No one has confirmed allocations yet - the paperwork hasn't even been sent to the dealers yet. Please do not jump the gun and then cry when it all turns pear shaped. Do not pay anyone any money for an allocation until you are sure they can deliver. Prices may go up - I'm not guaranteeing they will drop back like the dragons did. But I think that anyone who got caught up in the Dragon mania will attest - you can always buy when the dust settles - even if it costs you a few extra dollars. But if you get caught in the rush - it is very hard to unload your extras at the mania prices again - meaning you will probably lose far more buying early in the mania than if you are patient and keep your wits about you. Before you think of buying or commiting to a pre order or eoi - take half an hour to do some research through the SS files on the dragons. It makes for very interesting and educational reading. And it WILL save you money and heartache - that I will guarantee. Just remember - there will be 300 000 coins around. Historically it's only in the dragons that have EVER sold out so quickly and look how that ended. They had to go back and remint the mouse 3 years later because it never reached it's maximum! malachii
yep if i can not get them at the right price at the start then i will wait its only a coin and 300K is a lot of snakes that said i see also a little dragon (snake) with a dragon privy and if it happens then all the madness is for nothing because all you will have is a plan old bullion coin will have no collector value.
Awesome malachii - I really appreciate you taking the time to outline that brief history. I've read plenty of your posts and I respect your opinion. That's pretty much as I had guessed what happened (I'd read the history here too) - so any "premium" on pre-orders won't be from the mint and any high prices will only be due to spot price moving or flipping. Allocations *may* be low ... but it looks to me, if I'm "long on silver" then I've no need to be rushing in, unless spot is very attractive (in which case I could do that now in unallocated, since spot ain't bad now) ... Thanks again!
There is already Commonwealth Law allowing and describing the Snake Privy - so don't be surprised when it comes out - you have been warned! It WILL be released a few months after the snake is. Cut and past from Com Law (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2011L02779/Explanatory Statement/Text): 2013 LUNAR SNAKE - PRIVY MARK ISSUE (Item 54) The design for this 2013 Australian Lunar Year of the Snake coin consists of a representation of a snake entwined on a branch, surrounded by a pattern of lines. The coin includes the inscriptions 'Year of the Snake' along with the Pinyin pictograph pronounced 'sh' and meaning 'snake'. malachii
Wonder if they will go back and redo privvies with the Rat, Ox, Tiger and rabid? Wouldn't put it past them
Excellent post thanks malachii! Exactly what I was looking for. Can I confirm that Perth Mint sell direct at prices comparable to the Koalas & Kooks? That being the case, if I only require 1 roll (and a 1oz Gold snake) would you suggest I'm better off just buying direct from the mint? Or do group buys such as your's or Maggie's offer significantly cheaper prices than offered by the mint (despite the risk associated with allocations)? Is it only the flippers demanding premiums?
Mint is expensive both is price and shipping. But has the benefit of being almost guaranteed (server issues aside). I'd go both
