I finally got around to reading Sun Tzu's Art of War today, and one particular passage caught my attention: 'Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. such is the cost of raising an army of 100 000 men.' Chapter 2: Waging War, para. 1 I know everyone here believes silver to be worth more than its current manipulated price, and this just goes to show how much you used to be able to buy with a 1000oz's.... join the thousand ounce club, raise an army!
I can't remember the source but I read somewhere one of the greatest military leader in Chinese history was rewarded with about 10kg of silver after a lifetime of loyal service by his Emperor.
1000 oz of silver per day for 100,000 troops in the field.... How many troops do the US have deployed in Iraq and Afganastahn? what is the US dollar cost per day for the USA in these theaters. how does that relate to the silver price? It would be interesting to see the comparrison of what silver bought then to now..
Absolutely amazing, isn't it? Even just a handful of silver has tremendous real world value in the right place and right time. If you're basing the discussion up supply and demand, we haven't had silver stocks this low globally since the middle ages and our population is MANY times where it was at during the same period. It states very simply that silver is so undervalued in the current environment, it's almost criminal. Makes you want to go scramble for more, eh?
Going completely from memory here, but wasn't silver in historical China more valued than gold? Guess it all depends on relative rareness - like in Europe before the discovery of the silver resources in the New World.
I was under the impression early Egypt was in a similar boat concerning Silver! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i0lDZjD_H4[/youtube] Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK33cL8mqds Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJPHorCqKp0 Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ayNzgxcKY Here's another amazing snippet on Silver values through history some of the newer stackers here might have never seen : Link : http://www.pagowirense.nl/wr-his2a.asp In the old world, silver WAS the lifeblood of commerce and wealth across the entire known world!!!
using these numbers from ; http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service) TROOPS IN IRAQ Troops in Iraq - Total 48,000 U.S. troops as of Nov 30, 2010. All other nations have withdrawn their troops. thats 480 Oz of silver per day using the old Sun Tzu price. It is US$51,264,000 per day using these figures for 48,000 troops. at that rate 1 oz equals $106,800 in troop costs. either my maths and figures suck or silver may be a bit underpriced.
Funny you mention that, and your totally correct, silver was the metal for Chinese currency and was more valued by them than gold - gold was for ornaments and trinkets, silver was for spending! And you also mentioned the New World silver discoveries... they were one of the biggest turning points in history. Europe until that point was an economic backwater, with the majority of world trade occurring east of Constantinople (modern day Istanbul). The Europeans understandably wanted to tap into this lucrative trade route, but the Chinese and other nations didn't want anything that they produced... they wanted silver and the Europeans didn't have anywhere near enough.... until they for all intents and purposes dispossessed the South American tribes of their silver. But, they didn't stop there, they were still haemorrhaging silver to pay for the silks, pottery and spices that were so sought after in Europe... it was an untenable position to be in, they were essentially running a massive trade deficit to use modern terminology. So the British government, under the guise of the British East India company got the Chinese addicted to opium, on a staggering scale. They now had something to trade in the east that was not only desired, but demanded, and they demanded a high price in silver for it. With the positions now reversed, the Chinese emperor decided to ban all opium imports in an effort to stymie the outflows of silver into British coffers. The British response was to declare war. Though China was more advanced socially and economically, the Europeans far surpassed them in military technology due to the hundreds of years of infighting in Europe which had led to staggering military advancements. Needless to say the Chinese got very badly beaten, in the first, and soon after the second 'opium war'. This signalled the end of a massive transfer of wealth from east to west, leading to the ascendency of the west... only now is this imbalance being corrected. I fully understand if anyone didn't read that, I ended up writing a lot more than I had anticipated
Sounds about right, 1oz of silver per day. I read this was the average wage, even through the middle ages. Today, $30 silver, can you live getting paid $30 a day? Slam
Total side tangent, but the 1oz a day made me recall something I calculated the other day - the salary when I left uni and the salary I earn 15 years later is exactly the same in ounces of gold. Skills & experience have gone up, real remuneration hasn't. My earnings in gold peaked about a couple of years ago and have been declining since.
Sun Tzu: Art of War - Forgive me if I'm wrong 1000 ozs per day for 100,000 warriors = 1/10th of an oz per soldier. $3 per day. One can of your warmest Arabian beer please?
Yes indeed your correct, that is 1/10th a day if you shared 1000oz's between 100 000 soldiers. The thing is it is hard to tell exactly how much a soldiers wage was, because Sun Tzu mentions spending money on lots of things in that passage, such as supplies... so the 1000oz a day is what was needed to supply and pay the army of 100 000..... and then there is no way to tell if Sun Tzu was over or understating the figure. Edit: Im no maths whiz, but its less than 1/10th of an ounce....... a lot less..... 1000 divided by 100 000 = 0.01
I think this is a translation problem. I just looked the original Chinese version. It says 1000 oz gold, not silver. Actually, the importance of this sentence is all about saying the cost would be huge for the war rather than quantify it.
Are you guys sure that 1000ozs between 100,000 soldiers isn't 1/100oz each? You'd think that people who dealt in silver would understand fractions
Glad you could clear that up, the more it was broken down the less plausible it seemed that 1000oz's was the correct figure... things get lost in translation all the time unfortunately :/ And yes thats the gist of that section of the book... essentially saying that the cost of going to war is massive, so you better be sure that you win. This is kind of in the wrong section now
they are running about 120k before the troop surge in afghanistan. add up the cost to the american taxpayer and feel sorry for them. no wonder they are running a deficit. this is one mother of a whole they are digging. add on the costs of looking after the injuries when they stop and i go cold. bush's little wars are costing dearly. would be nice for silver to correct though. actually i would rather have no war and keep silver low so i can stack. hmmmm sad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...................... Austalian troops are there to you know.Your paying for them.
I was thinking about this again in bed (Like I have better things to do) & it occurred to that it hardly matters if the US is deployed killing people or sitting on a canvas bed in West Point. The cost is covered by the corporation, that being the USA. They say it was costing half a bill per day to wage Iraq but in reality it's all easily covered by the State. What is the cost per household in the US ? Would it even amount to 30 minutes labor per day ? The payoff is access to oil, Bush & Bush Jr are both oilmen. Whatever reasons they had to wage war aside, energy demands in the form of black gold obviously constituted the primary objective. They didn't invade Iraq to steal it's Gold did they !
