AUSTRAC radar when transacting with site sponsors & online sellers

Hi,
Just wondering when you buy from, specifically from Bullionmark, Bullionbourse and Aurora, is it possible to stay under the radar of Austrac at all?

For example, if you buy 1x1kg kook it will be under 2k, can you stay under the radar this way? Or if you buy 3x1kg coins at once, it totals around $3775, can you stay under the radar?

Or because it is an invoiced transaction there is no way you can stay under the radar.

And what is the implications of being in the radar if you don't sell for 2-3 years...

Thanks,
Sky

 

ROFL

 

You should be focused on tax minimisation NOT tax EVASION!!

Dont worry im not the tax police

 

When we ask for your identification, it is not passed on to anybody including AUSTRAC. The only time they will see your information is if they do a business review to check that we are keeping it legal or if you are buying in a way that seems suspicious to the operator of the business. Dealers know how important your privacy is and i'm sure will do everything they can to keep you 'under the radar' but we do have to follow the rules. Hope this helps

 

Most of us are not worried about the Tax, it's more that we don't want the Govt knowing what we own. Confiscation is always a topic which comes up here and Govt's have done it before and there is nothing stopping them from doing it again. I don't own any pm's unfortunately as I was involved in what seems to be a common occurance here, a boating accident and all my booty was lost at sea.

 

The best thing you can do is ask the dealer prior to placing an order. Some people have found out the hard way that dealers' "market loss policies" and ID requirements don't necessarily mix well together.

The short version:

$10,000+ in cash = ID recorded and report sent to AUSTRAC.

$5,000+ in any form of payment = ID recorded and stored with dealer for AUSTRAC compliance checks.

<$5000+ in any form of payment = ID recorded at the discretion of the dealer, in accordance with their own anti-money laundering policy.

You also have rights under the Privacy Act as to how and when your personal information is collected and stored. You should take some time to learn what those rights are because someone will inevitably try to trample on them - http://www.privacy.gov.au/

 

That is so weird, the exact same thing happened to me too!

 

Mine turned out to be fakes.

 

I made an igloo out of mine - they'll never recognize it. My mastiff sleeps in it ... he is also made out of silver, and is painted beautifully to look real, like a Chinese fake silver life size mastiff ... yeah that should do it.

 

So you guys dont implement some sort of AML system that tracks for patterns in buying or that flags it automatically like banks ?! You just roughly *SCAN* the buyer patterns ? I was actually thinking of taking half of my payments from a customer overseas in cash and the other half in gold.

I was going to ask the customer overseas to wire transfer and order gold at various bullion dealers (depending on spot and who's selling what for cheaper) and get the customer to state my address or use my customer account with the dealers to deliver the gold or silver to my address (kinda using bullion dealers as a way to transfer half of the payment to me as gold or silver instead of me having to go buy what i want to buy in gold or silver after i receive their full fiat payment) would that cause *ALARM Bells* to go off to a dealer if purchases were coming in regularly ?

 

Mate, you wanna get under the radar? Get your stuff from private dealers such as those in this forum. Or find bullion store that are no fuzz at asking for ID for under $5K transaction (such ABC Sydney).

If I were you I would check with SS forum members first... there are quite a few of members here who deals.

 

I recently had what little I had in my top drawer stolen. So I'm out of the game too .... one day I'll get back in.

 

Hi all,
Hope this isn't too long....I believe the most appropriate action to take is to read the law first (Comlaw http://www.comlaw.gov.au), then (if applicable) the policy of the entity. Irrespective of any policy, everyone (individuals and businesses) has to follow the law. Some companies try to bend the law to suit their own policies. (references at bottom).

The AML/CTF Act states:
Individuals (acting as a bullion dealer/"private dealers"/"private individual") must complete KYC (Know Your Customer) requirements (and AUSTRAC reporting if over AUD$10,000)

The AML/CTF Rules set different identification and verification requirements for different types of customers:
If you are a reporting entity providing one or more designated services under the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter- Terrorism Financing Act 2006 http://www.austrac.gov.au/aml_ctf_rules.html (AML/CTF Act) you must submit the following to AUSTRAC:
Suspicious Matter Reports (SMRs),
Threshold Transaction Reports (TTRs) (where applicable), and
International Funds Transfer Instruction (IFTI) reports (where applicable).

A reporting entity is an individual, company or other entity that provides a 'designated service' as defined in the AML/CTF Act. Reporting entities include banks, non-bank financial services, remittance (money transfer) services, bullion dealers and gambling businesses.

For an indivdual, acting other than as a sole trader (See 4.2.3 and 4.2.6 of the Act), the ID requirements are to collect:
Name
Full Name;
Address
Residential Address; and
Other
Date of Birth.

Then verify:
Full name; and
Either Residential Address or
Date of Birth

For an indivdual, acting as a sole trader (See 4.2.4 and 4.2.6 of the Act), the ID requirements are to collect:
Name
Full Name;
Address
Residential Address; or
Full address of the customer's principal place of business (if any); and
Other
Date of Birth;
Full business name under which the customer carries on their business (if any); and
Australian Business Number (ABN) issued to the customer (if any)

Then verify:
Full name; and
Either residential Address or
Date of Birth

When should I submit a Threshold Transaction Report (TTR)?
If your business provides or commences to provide a designated service to a customer which involves the transfer of physical currency or e-currency of AUD10,000 or more (or foreign currency equivalent) you must complete a TTR.
Physical currency is the coin or printed money of Australia or another country which is designated as legal tender.
E-currency is an electronic form of currency which is backed by precious metal or bullion.
You must submit a completed TTR form to AUSTRAC within 10 business days of the threshold transaction taking place.

An interesting point to note:
Do I need to identify existing customers?
Under the AML/CTF Act, existing customers are known as 'pre-commencement customers'.
Pre-commencement means prior to the relevant section of the AML/CTF Act coming into effect, which in this case was 12 December 2007.
Under the Act you do not need to identify pre-commencement customers unless a 'suspicious matter' reporting obligation arises in relation to a particular customer. The suspicious matter reporting obligation under the AML/CTF Act comes into effect on 12 December 2008.

Are there Exemptions to the Reporting of Customer Identification??
The AML/CTF Act exempts reporting entities from the customer identification procedure obligations in cases where a designated service is provided at or through a permanent establishment in a foreign country. The AML/CTF Act also exempts certain designated services relating to pensions, annuities, superannuation and retirement savings accounts from the customer identification procedure obligations. This includes someone acting in the capacity of an AFS licence holder arranging for any of those services to be provided to a person (where that is the extent of the service provided by the AFS licence holder).

What is ongoing customer due diligence (OCDD)?
Under the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (AML/CTF Act) and AML/CTF Rules, 'reporting entities' have obligations to monitor customers and their transactions on an ongoing basis. This 'ongoing customer due diligence' (OCDD) will help reporting entities to identify, mitigate and manage money laundering or terrorism financing (ML/TF) risks that may arise from providing one or more designated services to their customers.

The AML/CTF Rules specify three mandatory components of OCDD:
collection and verification of additional 'know your customer' (KYC) information
a transaction monitoring program
an enhanced customer due diligence program.

Mandatory component one: collecting and verifying additional KYC information
Before providing a designated service to a customer, a reporting entity must collect and verify information about the customer's identity. As part of the OCDD obligations, reporting entities must also determine when it may be necessary to collect further KYC information, or update or verify existing KYC information. This must be included in reporting entities' AML/CTF programs.

Mandatory component two: transaction monitoring program
The purpose of a transaction monitoring program is to identify transactions that appear to be suspicious, within the terms of the AML/CTF Act's 'suspicious matter' reporting provisions. The transaction monitoring program must be included in Part A of a reporting entity's AML/CTF program.
A transaction monitoring program should be able to detect complex, unusual large transactions and unusual patterns of transactions, which have no apparent economic or lawful purpose. It is up to reporting entities to decide on the most appropriate form of transaction monitoring for their business - for example, it does not have to be a computer-based software package. However, if a reporting entity has an automated system in place, the entity should assess the 'flags' produced by the system to ensure they are relevant to the entity's business and customers, prior to using the system.
See also 'Reporting entities who have been reporting to AUSTRAC as cash dealers under the FTR Act' below.

Mandatory component three: an enhanced customer due diligence program
Part A of a reporting entity's AML/CTF program must include an enhanced customer due diligence program, which is applied when the reporting entity determines there is high ML/TF risk, or a reportable suspicious matter has arisen.
When applying the enhanced customer due diligence program, the reporting entity must consider issues including whether to analyse, verify, re-verify, clarify, update, or obtain any KYC information about a customer, analyse and monitor the customer's transactions, clarify the nature of the customer's ongoing business with the reporting entity, and/or report a suspicious matter to AUSTRAC.

Amusing to see above the law states that "individuals have obligations to monitor their customers on an ongoing basis".....
lol what a joke if i every heard one.... "monitor their transactions with your business" is ok, but "monitor customers"?
soon we will have to fill out methane reports and send them to EPA...

References:
Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (AML/CTF Act) http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2011C00081
Full rules are here http://www.austrac.gov.au/aml_ctf_rules.html
Customer identification http://www.austrac.gov.au/customer_id.html
Customer ID Ready Reckoner http://www.austrac.gov.au/files/ready_reckoner.pdf
Ongoing Customer Due Diligence (OCDD) http://www.austrac.gov.au/ongoingcustomerduediligence.html
Reporting obligations http://www.austrac.gov.au/reporting_obligations.html
AUSTRAC Online http://www.austrac.gov.au/online

 

What tax sold all mine for a loss..

 

Yes, AUD$10,000 and above or equivalent in foreign currency must be reported for a SINGLE transaction, no matter how many times in one day.

The scenario you describe would not be required to be reported by law as it is less than AUD$10,000.

In the scenario above, the two purchases would be considered as two separate transactions. Therefore, no TTR is required.

Not sure about that one...could be


Hope this helps too!

 

Yes, mostly likely reported.

Frequent repeated sub $10,000 cash transactions are likely to be reported by a dealer to AUSTRAC as suspicious transaction

 

But when you go into PM you can only eftpos/visa $1000 and then you have to pay cash.....so if you went every month on payday and made your regular large purchase (this wouldn't be me!) then cash is the only option.