Lets play "Grade That Florin"- 1927 edition

Discussion in 'Numismatics' started by Deebsotronic, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. thepurplepenny

    thepurplepenny Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Looks like cleaned VF or perhaps gVF.

    By the way, the steps are not an indication of grade, but rather an indication of quality of strike. You can and do see gem graded parliaments with just two or even one and a half steps. Perhaps as more coins were struck with a pair of dies the detail in that area wore off, or perhaps it got filled with grease or debris, or perhaps they just didn't have the pressure on the press wound up high enough.
     
  2. ecc

    ecc Member

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    VF would be about it..
     
  3. Alfie

    Alfie Active Member

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    aEF, possibly cleaned
    This is a very popular George V coin (2.0 mil), many were pulled from circulation because of its fantastic design and as such most gradeable strikes dont attract high premiums, the normal COA 1927 strike (1.42mil) in that grade attains much higher values
    Lovely coin, thanks for sharing:)
     
  4. Crowley

    Crowley New Member

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    definitely cleaned
     
  5. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    here is my favourite ms 64
    [​IMG]
     
  6. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    they are called bag marks and are part of the reason it only got a 64, the disturbance to the toning is not as a result of being physically altered but just the way the toning has landed on this coin.
    as for the term rim knock, this is a rim knock
    [​IMG]
    you need to be able to distinguish between the different points of ms from 60-70 and remember that a coin doesn't have to be circulated to get damaged slightly eg bag marks
    this particular coin is a gem of an example with 3 steps and great eye appeal
     
  7. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    Thats pmd not a rim knock

    Is that your 64 serial?
     
  8. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes it is, I purchased it raw and got it graded.
    64 is not that uncommon but this has awesome rim toning (better in hand of course) and 3 steps which is hard to find
    Look at how American early silver coins recognize things like this like full strap dimes. Adds value to the coin to a informed collector
     
  9. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    most old Australian coin dealers hate pcgs as they have a heap of stock that wouldn't make it in a problem free slab as it was common for coins to be routinely cleaned in the 70's and 80's through a process called whizzing.
    Some still list coins as unc or gem when they are polished crap, that's why they hate having a third party service make it hard for them to peddle there crap.
    Thing is a picture can only show so much, for instance the area you are referring to has immaculate original surfaces with full mint state lustre, you wouldn't say the little spots in the toning are cleaned/worn areas would you?
    it is simply a place where the toning has occurred differently giving it character, I could however dip this coin to a blast white (again another common dealer practise) but it would ruin the coin in my eye
    I will repeat the important fact, I bought this coin raw, I didn't buy a slab, I recognised it potential and got it slabbed. I review many coins and believe I have a good eye for a high grade coin having picked many ms coins from dealer files that they neglected because they are toned, most old school coin dealers cant grade for sht but they sure as hell like to say a coin they bought as vf is aUnc when they got to sell it

    This is a beautiful coin and is one of my favourite Australian coins, it is far from my most valuable but I like it
     
  10. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I actually agree that some ms64's are better than others, you must always buy the coin not the slab, having said that the point of slabbing is to enable transparency in the industry, it is easier to buy a coin online knowing that it has had an independent 3rd party assign it a grade and it isn't going to be to far either side of the condition report. compared to how dealers used to operate where coins were traded based on the dealers opinion that quite often varied and collector to collector transactions were harder, less common and not encouraged.
    Auction houses have been losers as well unless they embrace the graded coins as they often have poor grading skills, no refund policies and average pictures on their raw coins. at least with a graded coin you know the condition and can bid accordingly, if you find the coin to be massively over graded you can lodge a claim against PCGS and they will pay the difference in value.
    Third party graders empower the collector at the expense of the old big fish in the industry and I think that's a good thing
     
  11. SilverSurfer77

    SilverSurfer77 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    This Centenary Florin is one of my prized numi coins in my collection. I purchased this raw as well and personally would call it UNC but would anyone here like to put a MS number to it.
    I know these are common in a high grade but to my eye this one is special because of the toning :)
    Photo's are not the greatest but please let me know what you think.


    Source: [​IMG]
    Source: [​IMG]
     
  12. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    Some of the tone looks a bit like dip residue, hard to tell from the photos. Are there any hairlines on the coin?

    Going by the photo and if it hasnt been cleaned I would guess a 62/63.

    Over to serial
     
  13. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    you raise the same concerns I have, however this coin is known to have unusual and dark tones due to the sulphur rich foy bags they were often sold and stored in.
    unfortunately your pictures are not good enough to grade this coin within 6 points eg it could range 6 point either side of ms61
    have you got a fixed macro setting on you camera?
     
  14. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    oh and btw the highest graded (eg 66/67) ones often are dark and covered in tone like yours
     
  15. SilverSurfer77

    SilverSurfer77 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks guys I will try and get some better pics.
    If it was only a ms 61/62 do you think it would still be worth getting it graded?
     
  16. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think any ms problem free coin in this series is worth the cost of grading, they are often cleaned by novices and as such are not gradable
    plus the new pcgs slabs are great storage media and they do true view pics on all secure grading now so my answer would be that spending $40 to get it graded is a good idea.
     
  17. SilverSurfer77

    SilverSurfer77 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In Australia, who is the best (most trust worthy) person to use to get it PCGS graded?
     
  18. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  19. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    I use Eric and he has always been great
     
  20. nicwinner

    nicwinner Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Eric is a good fellow had a few talks on the phone although never meet in person.
    but i end up get my coins graded by NGC instead of PCGS (which i think Drake Sterling only do PCGS?)
     

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