buy as much cheap silver as physically possible ? It most probably is well and truly manipulated against price. I'm hoping that works both ways though, and at some stage, for whatever reason, the price is manipulated to rise. Problem there is, will the goal posts get moved, and precious metals be outlawed. doubt it, but as they remark "prepare for the best, hope for the worst" ..... huh ! ??
If the international criminal banksters continue to get their way and living a life grander than we can imagine (effectively at our expense) ... we will go to our graves before silver goes anywhere ...
in Turkey, can we see this kind of news :lol: banks the staffs go long and the bank got the short end of the same stick and stick it inside the people ouch!!! time and time again, we have it name bail out, while the staffs get away with murder, but of late many mid level bankers get the free jump ok, insured by the the banks collecting their staffs covers. wow. but there are higher level getting away again. the next move would be to cut down all the tall trees, so what is left for future hanging is from cranes :lol: there they can have their ropes and metal cranes too.
One thing that I need to ask, because everyone posting in this thread seems to think this manipulation has been the suppression of the Silver price and this discovery will suddenly lead to the Silver price rising/going to the moon. Where is the proof that suppression has occurred? From the letter in the article, it's quite plausible that the price was infact inflated in market making deals (ie deals between bank counterparties on opposing sides of a transaction) based on the London fix, which would have absolutely no impact on the underlying spot price. It's an issue for counterparties in these particular transactions (based on the London Fix), not everyone else that deals in the rest of the spot market. Large differences between the fix and spot prices should be sorted by arbitrageurs, but this was stopped in 2014 by the new compliance rules - the results of which were seen on occasions when fix prices went way below the spot market with no mechanism to correct. Whilst certainly not right (the perpetrators ought to be punished) it doesn't signify to me any evidence of price manipulation (suppression or inflation) in the wider spot market. The fix market vs spot market can be compared to buying on SS vs buying from a dealer. Different markets selling the same thing, with different advantages/disadvantages and different pricing (though it's often similar as arbitrageurs fill any gaps). One reason that some individuals might choose to participate in the fix market is that they can anonymously buy/sell large quantities of a commodity, something not as easy to achieve in the wider spot market. Finally, if it's all so rigged - why would you be involved in the market in the first place? DYODD, know the conditions you're investing in and don't blame everyone else for your own poor investment decisions. Use lessons learned from mistakes to refine your strategy and don't make those mistakes again.
Silver prices are easy to manipulate http://www.ibtimes.com/silver-prices-are-easy-manipulate-nia-391469
well, of course not manipulation lead to silver price skyrocket, especially since 2011 discovery leads not to belief (formerly) but true statement that there is manipulation(proved) and people should factor "manipulation" into their investment ideas. for me this confirmation proves one thing - me was not wrong believing that there was manipulation, i.e. it means I am not keeping my money in relic piece of metal, but in some kind of treasury which some folks care to manipulate. P.S. unfortunately I haven't added pms during last 24 months.
they are currently absent planning a new strategy. i have said for a long time that many of those people are paid misinformation agents. i find it utterly impossible to believe that, with some of their apparent detailed knowledge of PM/financial/futures/derivatives/etc markets, they still vehemently denied any manipulation. and viciously fought any suggestion of it. but we knew the hall of mirrors would come crashing down sooner or later. here it is. it's just the start.
"Silver Manipulation Cultists Cheer "Proof" Posted on April 14, 2016,12:18 pm by Trader Dan Ah yes, the silver manipulation crowd is ecstatic this AM as they gleefully point to news that Deutsche Bank has agreed to settle in a class action lawsuit which claimed that it, along with several other large banks, had been rigging the silver price at the London Silver Fix. The claim by the silver cultists is that the bank would not have agreed to settle if they had done nothing wrong. Hello? Ever heard of companies settling nuisance lawsuits to make them go away? Nowadays it is called the "cost of doing business". Many unscrupulous attorneys make their living targeting corporations and other juicy targets in the full knowledge that such companies will almost inevitably settle to avoid the costs of litigation, not to mention the time, resources, and aggravation that would be involved in taking such a case to trial. Then there is always the risk of a fickle jury. The funny thing about the way this story has been reported is the ASSUMPTION that because Deutsche Bank agreed to settle the case, it therefore PROVES that they were manipulating silver prices. On the contrary, it proves nothing. What it proves is that Deutsche Bank simply wanted to avoid the aforementioned burden of dealing with a nuisance lawsuit. Here is the main point however. The entire premise of the silver is always manipulated crowd is that on account of these "nefarious banks", the silver price has been held down and would be considerably higher than it would otherwise have been were it not for their activity. I have long ago debunked that nonsense by simply displaying one chart. I will do so again for the benefit of those who might have missed those days. Chart_16-04-14_09-03-58 The dark line is the Dow Jones/UBS Commodity Index. This is just one of several commodity indices which are comprised of a basket of select commodity futures markets weighted according to a predetermined formula. While the individual weightings of each commodity can and will vary from one index to another, they all do a very good job of providing a picture of how the overall complex is faring. Notice how the silver price rises and falls with the rise and falls of the actual index. In other words, the two move in unison, rising together and falling together. I should note that the commodity index contains such things as crude oil, gasoline, corn, wheat, soybeans, cattle, hogs, sugar, copper, etc. In other words, it is very inclusive which is what one would expect from such an index. Here is the point. Based on the theory of the silver manipulation crowd, the silver price was being illegally held from rising by the actions of the various banks, included among them, Deutsche Bank. I would ask these poor souls the following simple question: "on what basis do you claim that silver prices would have been strongly higher were it not for these banks conspiring to force down the price and keep it from otherwise rising?" Are those of us poor, ignorant, and unenlightened souls such as you silver manipulation cultists, supposed to believe that while the rest of the commodity complex was sinking, silver was to somehow soar in price? While deflation/slow growth fears, oversupply issues, etc., were sinking commodities as an asset class, your gray metal god was somehow to have been immune to all such events? Did Deutsche Bank and its supposed allies among the other banks, work to suppress the price of oil, gasoline, copper, corn, beans, wheat, cattle, sugar, hogs, platinum, cotton, and every other commodity market on the planet? Did they force the entire commodity sector lower? Why then were those latter markets falling in price? Oh I see, it was all a giant conspiracy foisted upon the poor, defenseless commodity sector by evil, nasty banks. You may choose to believe whatever nonsense you wish to believe but I will stick with the simpler and more reasonable view that silver prices rise and fall with the fortunes of the rest of the commodity sector. It is no more complicated than that." https://traderdan.com/?p=10722
Are you involved with the stock / share market? Proven rigged. Are you involved with any kind of loans or bonds based on LIBOR? Proven rigged. Are you involved with any kind of currency? Proven rigged. If yes to any or all of the above: Why are you involved?
You are 100% correct but it had very little effect on individual basis. LIBOR is good example, trillions of dollars involved in proven rigging to my mortgages. But I still can't figure out if I won or lost out on the rigging as a bystander. I bet after all the riggers go to country club jail for massages, the silver prices will have changed bugger all.
How do you know? Fact is, we'll never know. "If after ten minutes at the poker table you do not know who the patsy is -- you are the patsy." - Poker proverb If the same rotten system is still in place, I don't see why any of it would change, either, regardless of who the players are.
Hence the distinction no one saying it is a cartel. Because it was being rigged up and down. Conspiracy people are looking at it in one direction but that is not what people are saying. With LIBOR it is quite easy because it is very well documented, with the end result being it had almost no influence at individual level. As for stocks, it's rigged because analyst get inside running, currency when the reserve bank changes policy try to influence exchange rate it is rigged. It seems you didn't know that?
(in my opinions...) THIS is the kind of misinformation i was talking about above. when a company settles purely for financial reasons (to make it "go away") they ALWAYS insert a clause "without any admission of liability". this maintains their innocence of any wrongdoing. and helps prevent further litigation against them. do you see that statement anywhere? nope. they even go so far as to say in one of the letters "In addition to valuable monetary consideration to be paid into a settlement fund, the term sheet also provides for other valuable consideration such as provisions for requiring Deustche Bank's cooperation in pursuing claims against the remaining Defendants.". does that sound like a "take your extortion money and get stuffed" kind of settlement? nope. imo this trader dan (and other commenters here) present themselves as "authorities" or "knowledgable" on the markets yet the inclusion of a cunningly and deliberately omitted line from the settlement terms easily exposes what their agenda is: TO DECEIVE YOU. (or they are fools who have been deceived. take your pick. but don't believe them.)
Share market - Where's the proof? It certainly hasn't been proven on any sort of wide-ranged scale here in Australia, infact I see alot of stories about rigging with no proof. My exposure to o/s markets is non-existent due to my lack of knowledge about those markets and the companies within them. People sharing tips on here could be considered manipulation - is it really? Bonds/Loans - No. Currency - Not involved in any FX transactions - infact I've shown a number of times how I've utilised PMs to avoid paying Forex transaction fees during my overseas travels. But like just about everyone here I use fiat currency in day-to-day transactions. Why am I involved in any of these markets? Necessity (regarding currency). For anything else, it's the same reason that people engage in gambling. I believe that in certain instances that I have either 1. An advantage over the other participants 2. Am going to 'beat the odds' or 3. Any 'manipulation' won't have any effect on the endeavour that I'm about to undertake. Whenever you're buying PM, a share, property or any form of investment, the person selling it to you is effectively betting against you. I certainly don't blame the system for it all as I don't have to participate in any of those markets in order to live my life, participation is simply a choice that I've made. Bleating about it being unfair isn't going to change anything, learning about the market (flaws and all) is the best way to succeed.
Trader Dan has the profit to back up all his talk. He is commenting as a trader within the present system and is fine about having pm insurance when things go bad/change. He was attacked by imbeciles as he called the drop, in very aggressive ways and got fed up with the relentless offensive spruikers and called them out for what they were - mindless pumpers selling pm products and hype newsletter subscriptions. Who outside of Martin Armstrong and Dan were on the right side of the trade? And we all questioned them then - myself included. His analysis is first rate. Look at the commodity index tracking down with silver, or the way GLD graph adds or divests with the pog. Nobody does a technical big picture analysis like Dan. AND his blog was always free until he had to fire-ring it because of the intellectually 'special', big mouth screamers. Who wouldn't get sick of the idiots hate. There are different viewpoints from many different angles. Appreciating where people are coming from helps in understanding the truth of a matter. The value of TFturd was that he facilitated the contribution made by a broad community on his blog, which he killed chasing money in subscriptions. The site is but a shadow it once was. I like his site somewhat, but for entertainment purposes only, and if it disappeared tomorrow - who cares. Whilst it SEEMS dan takes things a bit too far, remember he is referencing the gold cult profiteers, whereby so many being preyed upon have lost big $$$ listening to the 'only way is up' mantra, purchasing from sellers of bullion/subscriptions who make their cut regardless. They are the mindless haters Dan is refering to.
that's a different issue. good on him if he made good trades and told others to as well. i don't know him and cannot dispute if he is extremely talented at predicting the direction of markets. and if he was attacked by people who said his predictions will be wrong, then he has his past recommendations to demonstrate he was right. if i dabbled in these day trading or short term markets i might have taken a closer look at him. but that still does not explain/justify vehemently denying any manipulation, especially now. the settlement wording, missing the words "without admission of liability", cooperating with the plaintiffs to provide emails, documents etc, are all huge indicators slapping us in the face about whether this was just a "pay to make a frivolous case go away" settlement or whether there is something bigger going on. surely dan, with all his research, would have had a passing glance at the statements issued and worked this out. douche bank would not have allowed such a damning statement to be released, attached with such conditions, unless they were trapped in a corner. but alas, dan writes an article deriding those "crazy manipulation conspiracy theorists". hmmmmmmnnn. you gotta question why. remember, misinformation works by giving X % truth to gain your trust and then misdirecting you on the remaining (100-X) %. is this a case of that??? edit: p.s. i fully expect that, with the eventual "failure" of douche bank, this settlement (in financial terms anyway) will be meaningless - good luck trying to extract anything from a bankrupt entity.
