ATB Sales

Discussion in 'Silver Coins' started by Shippeevt, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    The past several days I've been checking eBay to see prices on the latest ATB and all the listings of the new Saratoga "P" version have very significant after market premiums attached to them....almost like price gouging....it's a bit shocking.


    I think that collectors are not playing games and gobbling these coins up from the US Mint at break-neck speed. Early last week I went to order the "P" version of the newest ATB (Saratoga N.P.) on the U.S. Mint site but none were available any longer to order. Every day I checked to see if they were going to mark it sold out (which could have been a near record-time sell-out for a "P" version) and every day there were none available. As I'd done last week, I checked the U.S. Mint site this morning and viola! I got lucky as heck because they released some more for sale and I was able to order mine. Apparently though, within a short time, none were available again.

    I'm sure I wasn't the only one who missed getting one the first time around and got lucky this morning like the other collectors who purchased in that tiny window of time they were available.

    The odd thing is that it wasn't untill like 10 or 15 minutes after I placed my order that I received the auto-reminder e-mail notification from the U.S. Mint that more Saratoga's were again available for purchase. Thank goodness I didn't wait for that auto-reminder notice...maybe they were gone by then and especially since that auto-reminder notice goes out simultaneously to all customers who signed up (hundreds or more of collectors possibly), there would likely have been a log-jam on orders being placed if I waited till then.

    The US Mint seems to be selling out very quickly of a number of collector items. Just look at the 1 oz proof Platinum Eagle....sold completely out in like 6 or 7 minutes! It's crazy but maybe the low spot prices of metals is the reason...people realize that these are bargain prices compared to what they've seen in the recent past few years.

    I can't blame collectors for jumping so quickly on these coins.

    My suggestion, if you want the new Saratoga "P" ATB, keep checking back daily on the site and sign up for the auto-reminder.....but keep in mind the auto-reminder may not ensure that you can get one in time.



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  2. kutylin

    kutylin Active Member

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    All you said is right. What is strange previous P versions of this year except one are for sale as usual. What makes Saratoga coin so different?
     
  3. kutylin

    kutylin Active Member

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    Also just noticed that Apmex sells other ATB 2015 P version coins but not Saratoga. Something is very interesting happening....
    P.S. Was lucky to get one from US mint yesterday. Though the price of 149 USD for 5 oz of silver is too high I think.
     
  4. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Too high compared to what???




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  5. kutylin

    kutylin Active Member

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    Compared to the spot price of 1oz of silver, 1 oz simi numi coins and 10 oz Kooks for example ;-) Also in 2014 when the price of silver was much higher you could buy ATB coin for around 130+ USD (as a subscriber though).
     
  6. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    You are not comparing like to like and so of course your "too high" comment doesn't make logical sense.

    1) the "P" version of the ATB is a collector (some use the term numismatic) coin, not a bullion coin. Therefore, it's price scheme is like that of a proof coin, notably higher than a bullion coin. No mint gives any and everyone free stuff when they order. Therefore, when you buy collector coin, of course you are going to have to pay for the additional costs of labor and materials that is entailed in the production of collector coin products over bullion coins.

    2) the ATB that was going for around USD $130 last year was not the "P" collector version. The direct from the mint non-subscription issue price for the "P" collector version has never been lower than it is now. The U.S. Mint no longer offers a reduced subscription price for any coins, and even when they did, the discounted price for the "P" version was about .50 cents shy of $140.


    All things considered then, the current price for the "P" version is a good price in my view.



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  7. kutylin

    kutylin Active Member

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    I agree with your point of view and even collect ATB P coins myself? Price policy of US mint is it's own right.
    My right although is to criticize it. It's strange for me that 10oz Kook (beautifully crafted product by any means) is 170+ USD and 5oz ATB coin is 150 USD.
     
  8. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Of course you have the right to criticize something, but I have the right to correct your faulty assumptions and poorly made arguments. ;)

    Kook is a bullion product, ATB-P is a collector coin. Expecting to pay the same price per ounce pre-after market for both is not very clear thinking.

    What you are doing is no different than claiming the Mercedes Benz CLA250 is priced too high in comparison to the Hyundai Accent. It doesn't make sense....it's not comparing like-to-like.

    In general, if it costs more to produce then it means it costs more to buy. That's a basic business concept.

    Good luck with your purchases!




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  9. kutylin

    kutylin Active Member

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    Thank you for strengthening of my faith in ATB P version coins :) Bad I knew about series in 2014 and not begin to collect these coins before.
     
  10. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    When I found out about this series it was the end of 2012 or maybe some time in 2013. So I had to do catch-up buying of 2010-2012 issues.

    In my view, it's a worthwhile series to collect for several reasons, the most obvious perhaps, is that these are the first 5 oz silver coins the U.S. Mint has ever produced. The low mintage and aesthetic quality of the "P" version is also a nice plus.

    I hope to be able to make a complete set when the final coin is minted in 2021.


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  11. MasterID

    MasterID Member

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    There will be people who get to know it in 2016 or when metal starts to shine again.
     
  12. Sully

    Sully Member

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    Interestingly, i too think the current price for the ATB P versions are on the high side.
    Not for the comparisons to other bullion product pricing..... the "P" versions are an uncirculated collector version and are not subject to lower price margins of bullion. Quite right.
    But my own expectations of a lower price for the "P" version is based on historical pricing from the mint.
    The US mint has frequently responded in the past to substantial downward directions in the silver spot price when setting prices for the ATB "P" and other collector products.
    (once the direction of that swing has proved itself to be a consistent direction, and not a brief anomaly).

    They have historically tried to maintain an average over-spot-margin of $60 for the "P", since 2012.
    (i mention since 2012 only, because given the extreme volatility of silver during 2011 the margin was kept higher. It was common for swings of $10 per oz in a single month during that year, and the mint do not like to have to respond too often to these brief swings, understandably).

    Given that we are currently in a consistent region of close to an $80 margin, it is reasonable to say they are indeed overpriced.
    With the steady and consistent slide in spot price for the past several months, i would expect a price review from the mint should be on the cards.

    (an interesting article from 2013 examining this, as an example: http://mintnewsblog.com/2013/07/us-mint-to-lower-silver-numismatic-product-prices/ )
     
  13. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Yes, Sully, that argument I do accept.

    I myself have been hoping for the past year that the U.S. Mint more closely track silver spot but since I am interested in trying to complete a full set of these, I will either buy it direct from the U.S. Mint or likely pay more for these in the after market. I order from the U.S. Mint because if the quality isn't virtually perfect, I can return the coins no problems whatsoever.

    With the after market coins, it's very likely that many of the collector coins available are picked through and are coins with blemishes, not to mention most dealers don't provide pics of the actual coin you will get. Even on eBay, some sellers don't use good pictures. So to cut our all that B.S., I just order directly from the Mint.

    That's not to say that there are some reputable sellers on eBay who post high rez images and offer reasonable prices....but with this series, I will just go straight to the source.


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  14. heyimderrick

    heyimderrick Active Member

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  15. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Thank you for the offer. If I didn't just completed this set up to the current year as of a couple of weeks ago, I'd be contacting you immediately.




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