Well, I'm betting contrary to your opinion. . 30 - 40 may have been stupid purchase, but not buying at 12, 13, 14 is a stupid too. lol. If you're in the market of buying precious metals. I bought my kooks 1992 - 2007 (a boat load during the reminding fiasco), and those are doing just fine...and I bought those when spot was around 26.00. So, not all bullion purchases were a bad investment when silver was 30+ per oz. There are quite a few Odin's for sale, and I just don't see product moving. I think it is because spot is so low, and folks are taking advantage of these prices (more bang for the buck), or they are discouraged, and and staying away from PM's altogether. But I don't see a ton of demand for collectibles, or if there is demand, it's because prices are getting hammered to create demand. Sorry, but just calling a spade a spade.
Could also be that some people who normally buy some silver product are not buying at all at the moment, worried about the value of any silver they buy due to silver spot plunging to depths not seen in more than 6 1/2 years. That doesn't mean that silver can't drop a whole lot more and stay at those even lower prices for years. So both arguments (buy blobs or buy collector coins) have validity. If it turns out that spot will drop further or remain depressed for years, the numi buy may be the better buy. But it also depends on your goals. I remember when spot was still in the USD $30's but had been and was dropping steadily and forum members were pondering how low spot could go. Most scoffed at my suggestion that spot might bottom at $14. Turns out I was wrong and who knows where the bottom will be in this fierce bear market. There are examples of newly released U.S. Mint collector coins performing well as of late. Some collector coins not performing well. One thing I am quite confident about is that if Choice Mint had the market integration of the Perth Mint (and of course it's only a hypothetical), the Odin coin prices right now would be at least triple of what they currently are....even with spot being so low. That's not the fault of Choice Mint...it's just the market reality. .
I have a bet - anyone willing to take? ). Buy 5 of my Odin coins. I'll sell them each for my buying price of 209.00. You hold on to the 5, I'll take the cash, and buy as many kooks with the $1045.00, approximately 58 ounces. And beginning in Jan, let's see who does better on a PERCENTAGE basis, a year from Jan 1st. If you win, I send you 5 kooks, if I win, you send me 1 Odin. Anyone willing to bet?
You can't be betting completely contrary to my opinion as the proprietor of chinesemedals.com. With your mention of $12 silver, it seems that you're already prepared to lose money on the cheap bullion you buy today - sounds like a bad investment as that's more than a 10% loss from today. What will you be saying if/when we see $8-9 silver? If you're not seeing a ton of demand for collectibles, then you're either walking around blindfolded or looking in the wrong places. There's a lot of companies out there that only sell collectible coins. I will also agree with you, the existence of what some call semi-numismatic coins (like the kooks you mentioned) gives the opportunity to buy *lower* premium bullion coins with the hope the prices will go up. The problem is that times have changed, mintages have increased (Kookaburras), amount of silver has decreased (Pandas) and quality has plummeted (Elephants). I don't see anything out there today that I would call semi-numismatic (Bullion with good potential upside) outside of Perth Mint's Lunar Series, and even this generally takes 2+ years before a collector sees it valued over what they paid (at least outside of Australia).
Yes indeed, I think we both agree. If one can secure a semi-numi coin for the same price, one would pay for an eagle or maple, then it is a no brainer which one will do better over the long and short term. I'm not much into the govt issued eagle, maple, philharmonic, etc... I do enjoy the debate. I mean no harm or foul by my comments. Yes, I'm a big believer in collectibles. No question. But as my biz partner Andy knows, I've curtailed my purchases considerably, in order to buy bullion coins (semi-numi). For me, it makes the most sense at this point. I believe he continues to buy collectibles (Chinese coins and medals and other collectibles), at fire sale prices. Hopefully the Valkerie helps propel this 1st issue, the Odin to higher prices. But I'm okay, if not. I'd be a little disappointed if prices didn't climb, but at the end of the day, I'm holding a physical asset, which I believe will do well long term! keep up the good work db.
The market is always changing. I think the most important thing is to have a strategy and constantly be monitoring said strategy to see if it needs to be changed. I also think it is good to enjoy some of the finer things in life. Coins like this fall in that category to me and I enjoy them considerably. My bet is that as this series grows these will show handsome returns. I also think bullion is cheap right now....but then I thought that at $30 and then $20 and then again at....
I'm one of the crazies who doesn't mind buying beautiful kooks and pandas at these prices. I'd love to buy a crate/box of the 2016 pandas. 450 ounces. Maybe when spot hits 8? ))
This turned into a really interesting conversation, its practical and a lot can be learned from this thread. I also think the collectible market has 'softened' a bit, but its only for some particular series, people seem more focus and buying cheap bullion and very specific semi-numi's with the price dropping. We'll see how this turns out.
Numismatic coins make for better preservation of value and usually have better potential for price appreciation. As I've always been told, high tide lifts all boats so when the spot price goes up all bullion and numismatics increase in value. The drawback of numismatics is liquidity and if not an expert, investing or speculating in the wrong coins can lead to huge losses. Bullion is subject the spot price. However, at $14 and a near 80-1 gold to silver ratio, downside risk is almost non-existent. Buying semi-numismatic coins like the 2016 pandas are an absolute no brainer. Each year you gain a premium as the designs continually change. When I can buy 2 sheets of Pandas for basically $600, or $20 a coin, I know I won't lose on them. Better % gains than PM lunars.
That my thought too. I have ordered 225 pieces 2016 panda. I use the reserve money for certain numismatic for it. I bought 2 pieces Odin to test. One for keeping and another for sell. Sit in this forum long enough no buyer at all. The price down for 2 times and below 200 still no buyer. But all good it still look a mile stone for western numics in high relief.
Wafdawg and Andrewlee, absolute no brainer, 100% agreed. I'm picky about which collectibles I'll buy at this point. It will be a very small percentage of my investment into this space. Unfortunately, AT THIS POINT, I'm one of the knuckleheads who bought 1 too many Odins. I'd gladly sell a few at breakeven to sink into the lovely pandas, lunars, or kooks.
Guys, I know I'm a bit biased here, but seriously the coin has been in collectors (and flippers) hands for like 2 months! If the price had climbed to $500 overnight it would have just been an ugly tumble(similar to another coin released around the same time) . Do you guys think the Pandas doubled in value in 2 months? I think we saw a few ebay flippers spend money they didn't have on a gamble of that $500 mark, when it didn't hit that mark they instantly gave up and basically broke even or took a loss by listing on ebay with a very low BIN just to dump. This will always slow down price appreciation and we see it all the time with new coin releases.
Well, we sure hope your right db. . I'm both a collector and seller. I'm counting, hoping, and most definitely praying, on the popularity increasing with future releases. :lol: :lol: I suggest you do the same. With spot price so low, I think the price of these will remain where it currently sits, or go down a bit, because of spot getting hammered. Which is fine by me. Obviously one can't sell it for 180, or they are losing money after eBay/PayPal fees...I don't think many got theirs for lower than 180 after all discounts. So that helps build a floor on this 1st issue. Hopefully the same will apply on future releases, which helps prices stabilize...not go too extreme in either direction. Maybe you should imitate the Chinese on one of the issues, and have a mintage of 299. ). Talk about a spike in price. Lol. Surely you have renderings of the Valkery by now? Have you considered do two sets of series vs. one set of 11 in a series. That sure is a lot for one series.
What about that raffle give-way to those who pre-ordered you mentioned a while back db23? Can we expect news of that raffle in January 2016? .
Glad I never got in on this one. The mintage was to high in my oppion. Db says wait but I don't know. Pandas initially are tied to spot price so to compare this coin to them is not realistic. I think it's a great coin but when people are losing money out of the gate on something that's not tied to spot, there most likely gonna invest else where when the next coin comes out. Look at the lunar zodiac series. Mintage of 500 and they are all selling above issue. Well at least last time I checked. I think if they cut the mintage to 500 or less it would do better. But obviously at that quantity it may no be worth it to mint them.
Right. At the end of the day, it's all speculation on this series until the next one comes out. That will be the proof in the pudding. IMHO. And if I'm a betting man, I say, those who ordered multiples of this first one, will only order 1 or 2 to add to their series (if they are pleased with the quality). I hope I'm wrong. I wish nothing but the best of success for db23 and team. I think the high relief market is a good one to get into. But you are right shipeevt, the mintage just may be on the high side, hence my comment, make one that is MINTAGE of 500, and see what happens. Or make 2 series from this series of 11. One that is 1500, and one that is 500. And raise the price a tad on the 500, and see which one does better. ). Let's hope that the Valkery is so awesome that it makes the high relief COIN series continue to grow in popularity. The industry needs it. At this point, I'm not even talking about price shooting up, I'm just hoping that the interest in high relief coins grows. :lol: :lol:
Bgasc had them for under 20 when presale was around. Granted you had to buy a lot...cheapest I seen now is about 20.5 in a monster amount.
Well, when spot goes below 14.00, Provident Metals will have them under 20.00. My only concern with them is if you order in lots of 15, will they send them individual pieces or in the trays...I have yet to confirm via email. No thanks if not. I'd rather spend the extra money to get them in trays. http://www.providentmetals.com/2016-30-gram-chinese-silver-panda.html Ooops. Sorry, for hijacking the Odins with the Pandas...was too irresistible. :lol: But the Odins are nice too.
