As I'm getting more into graded and semi-numi coins I've been wondering what the significance is of slabbed coins when they're designated as early strike/release. First of all is there a difference between early strike and early release designation and why does it matter? Also, and maybe related to that, when mints note the coin number (not the overall mintage, but the individual number) on their COAs of a limited mintage coin why do collectors get excited for lower mint numbers, or why does it matter? Does it ultimately give it more value or is this just a personal preference for someone knowing they have a low numbered coin? If there has already been a thread addressing this can someone direct me to it? I was not able to find one. Thanks all.
Great questions on a confusing issue. Collectors tend to be picky about the quality of the coins they buy. Who can blame them since modern collector (semi-numi) coins usually have a high premium and even more importantly, their value is based in large part, on their condition (mintage numbers also can affect value as can other characteristics). So, let's talk about condition. What is generally considered top condition of a coin or medal? It's the quality of the strike (strong and full detailed impression) and the amount of imperfections on the coin / medal. Imperfections can include minor scratches, dents and dings, cracks, and even milk spots and other blemishes caused during or after production. Coins and medals which have the fewest visible imperfections and the highest quality strikes are the one's that tend to be valued most highly by serious collectors who will pay big money for the finest examples...which can be pretty rare since imperfections can easily result from any number of things. Generally, the coins that are struck earliest on a coin die will have the best impression because wear and tear on a die comes with every subsequent striking of the next blank (a blank is a term for the piece of metal the die strikes in order to create the impressions you see on the finished coin). that's why to some collectors, the earlier the coin was struck on a die, the more likely it will leave a better impression. But here's the rub. Logistically, when a mint produces a lot of the same coin, they generally stack them (in their boxes) high on shelves or even on the floor so that the coins struck first are on the bottom of those piles...in no particular order. When the coins actually leave the mint, the coins that are first struck may not be shipped within the first batch or even at all depending on the volume of orders and how many coins were minted. For very low mintage coins that come with numbered COA's, there is a way that a mint can actually match the lowest numbered COA's with the coins that were actually first struck. Except for the "Numbered First Struck" designation (http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/scale-designations/other.aspx), all the other designations like "First Release", FirstStrike", and so on and so forth mean nothing at all....they are worthless and arguably very misleading. The "Numbered First Struck" designation is different because it has specific criteria which is supposed to be an verifiable accounting of the coins that are actually struck first by the mint meaning that those coins designated as "Numbered First Struck" are the one's which should have the best die impressions. There's also the matter of how reputable the TPG (Third Party Grading) company is. Lots has been written about this all over the net and in forums like this but in general, in the US marketplace, NGC, PCGS, and ANACS are regarded as the most reliable. So, the short answer is, in most cases, "First Release", "FirstStrike", and similar designations (other than the "Numbered First Struck" designation) are sales gimmicks and assure nothing at all in terms of what they insinuate to assure. What's more important in terms of the value of the coin / medal, is the grade it receives. I would argue that an MS 67 "FirstStrike" coin is less valuable to most collectors than an MS 70 graded coin that has no special 'First' designation. That said, there can be minor qualitative differences between similar coins receiving the same grade by the same TPG. That will likely have to do with the quality of the impression (strike) as opposed to the amount of imperfections. that's where the "Numbered First Struck" designation may be worth seeking out because coins labelled under this designation are supposed to have a paper trail from the mint assuring that the coins being graded with that designation are coins that were actually first struck with the dies by the mint. This may not matter to most people now but to serious collectors it might and as graded coins appear to be gaining increasing support from coin buyers, it may become more important to more people in years to come that there's a grading designation which is alleged to have a paper trail to verify the claim of "first struck". .
Wow, excellent and thorough explanation--foolishly I guess on my own, I would have never made the connection between the wear and tear on a die to the quality of the coin. Thanks for taking the time to put it together and based on the facts you present I'm glad I asked. I'm also glad to hear you say graded coins may be gaining momentum since I have been focusing on MS70 Pandas to start my graded collection. The downside to Pandas as I've been scouring Ebay for them is that they have a tendency to spot which is a bummer if you've spent the money on a graded coin and it spots after you get it. I've also found that not all Ebay sellers are as up-front or obvious about mentioning the spots, which is crap I think if a seller wanted to maintain a decent rating it would be in their best interest to put it in the main description. I've even read some Ebay posts where the seller says that spots are common and aren't a big deal--whatever. Anyway, I've made the decision to not bother with anything less 70 and I for sure won't pay any mind to the first strike nonsense unless it is the "numbered first strike" variety that you mention. One follow-up question: do you have any thoughts, facts or opinions on the different types of labels grading cos use? For example NGC has a Panda label, a blue label, a China label, a Great Wall of China label...among others. Is there any significance there? Thanks again.
Perhaps a waste in most cases but not all. Several years ago I saw 2011 Gettysburg 5 oz. ATB P graded SP70 FS going for $1100. Recently one sold for $3581 on the bay. I'd say that paid off. As the population for this particular coin is 75 I doubt we'll see many up for sale. I'll agree that in most cases grading plus FS/ER is money down the drain but there are exceptions.
It has value if others are willing to pay for the designation/grade. I bought a MS70 FS 1oz gold lunar dragon for spot + $150. A similar coin sold three days ago for $2049US or spot + $800. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-100-Ye...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 I sold 40 1oz 2010 silver lunar tigers to Apmex recently. 10-12 of them graded out MS70 and sold for about $128. That's about $50 more per coin than the ungraded ones are selling for. I normally don't deal in graded coins and don't keep up with them like some of you. From what I have seen MS70s seem to be worth the early premium, but MS69s aren't.
based on my experience selling and buying modern numismatics on eBay... MS70 fetch the highest price MS69 and OMP are sold at similar price bracket MS68 and below pretty much priced below OMP If MS70s are just slightly more than the MS69, by all means get the 70.
Costs can vary quite a bit depending on the service you seek. I have never used PCGS but I have sent some coins / medals in to NGC for authentication and grading. In at least 1 case, the authentication was much more important a service than the grading because of the rarity of the medal and the fact that it is known that fakes have been made of that particular medal. ANACS should not necessarily be ruled out. They are considered to be a reputable TPG and their prices are unmatched (on the low side). There is a website specifically for dealers (which i am not and I no longer recall the URL) which gives like weekly or monthly updates on sales of TPG coins and this site also breaks down the percentage of premium that is made on coins slabbed by the top TPG's. So in other words, you can actually see which TPG slabbed coins collectors are paying the most for because the metrics compared are the same for each coin (type, year, mint mark, grade number, etc) from each of the TPGs. If I recall correctly, PCGS slabbed coins tend to get slightly more in most cases than NGC slabbed (graded) coins which gets more than ANACS graded coins, which gets more than ICG graded coins, etc, etc. There's a hierarchy (borne out in higher premiums netted for sold coins) among the TPGs but I think that it can fluctuate a little at times based on various factors. .
the common understanding is that... PCGS: for US coins Chinese and world coins: NGC Panda collectors used to send their pcgs graded pandas to ngc for s walkover or regrading as most of the older graded pandas tend to be ngc graded. But in recent years international market is slowly accepting pcgs slabs for non-US coins.
An Apmex buyer warned me recently that they discount PCGS slabbed coins as they feel the PCGS slabbing process leads to problems with silver coins.
^ Hmmm, that can be a serious problem. Would you say, dccpa, that your source was a reliable one? I wonder if NGC ever got verification of something like that if they'd use it to smear PCGS or boast about their own slabbing process. .
The Apmex buyer has always been honest with me and I don't think he was trying to make a lowball offer. I have noticed that most of the graded coins Apmex sells are now NGC. When I checked the MS70 FS 2012 1oz silver lunar dragons I bought a year or two ago, 6 of the 20 had some brown marks (toning?). I don't buy a lot of MS70 or FS coins, but I will definitely be avoiding PCGS slabbed silver coins.
