My first "return request" on ebay. It is a 1g gold medal/round, brand new that I bought directly from the maker. It is real .999 gold of course. I expect any so called return to be just an empty envelope scam. She is in the US, but is it too early to file a police report? Any advice? There is no "bugger off" option on ebay:
Video the whole process of opening the parcel when you receive it back. I know other stacker got scammed by receiving a blank parcel and the buyer claimed already returned it.
Ask her to provide proof from the jeweler that it isn't real. Nothing wrong with asking her to return first and you refund once you've received the gold. As suggested, filming it would be a good idea.
I would do that, but ebay's message says I will be charged for return shipping. "Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping because the buyer mentioned that something's wrong with the item." The winning bid price was pretty much my cost, so first of all, I would want to only accept a return at the buyer's cost. Over a year ago, Some selling of cheap purses/iphone "Lighting" (sic) cables...one "1990 panda gold coin 1/20 once" (sic) All perfect. Buyer feedback is perfect. Two transactions in the past month. I guess I will contact one of the sellers and see if anything happened with them.
what is yours like? I would say stick you heels in and vet future sales from his area. if you let him send it back then you are kind of admitting its fake. do you have a rcpt of its purchase? providence would go a long way to proving its real. and insist on written evidence that's its fake like house said
My feedback is good, low volume but all 5 stars with about 100 sales. And I just found my receipt for this item, thanks for the reminder. No way I can vet sales from the US, even Los Angeles, the city of angels
Problem with Ebay is the buyer is always right. Your basically in a pickle now. Either you will have to accept the return or the buyer will open a case, win, and get thier money back and keep the gold. You can escalate the case but Ebay will just have the buyer return it and have the money pulled from your account. They probably think they can take advantage of you since you are out of country...or U.S buyers are always sketched out about getting fakes from people that are out of country and may just assume they got a fake. Try to get them to return it first, record it and if it is not there then escalate the case with video proof they scammed you. Probably your best bet.
I would contact Ebay and explain the situation including that you have proof of purchase which shows the coin to be 999 gold. I would ask who is to pay for return postage and whether the refund includes the original postage. As far as I understand it the buyer pays for the return postage and the refund will be for the cost of the item and postage originally paid to you (this may well have changed since I last looked into this). You might also suggest to Ebay that it would be fair that they ask the buyer to show proof that the coin has been found to be not gold by a legitimate jeweller and stating how it was tested. If the coin was damaged in the test you might be able to reject the return on that ground. Again clarify with Ebay before bursting into print with the buyer. I don't believe you are covered by seller protection by Ebay or Pay Pal for this sort of complaint but check with both of them to be sure as some protections have recently been changed or are in the process of being changed now. So depending on what Ebay says, I would then go for option A, making sure you asked Ebay what is the best way to cover yourself for the empty envelope scam or different coin in the envelope scenario. Scammers tend to forget that weight is stamped on most parcels so take note of the weight stamp (if available) and keep all the packaging. This probably will not happen if the coin is just in an envelope though. Videoing the opening of the letter is a great idea. Overall there is a very good chance you will get "a" coin back and have to refund the original postage and sale price. Not much you can do about it. Good luck!!
danman49 also made another great point. Try to get them to explain how it was tested. If the coin was damaged or altered any way during the tests Ebay may refuse the refund request. Hopefully if they didn't really get it tested they will just say something like"Acid Test" and you can use that against them later.
maybe one/more of the previous sellers is the same guy trying to build a rep. especially true if the items bought/sold are small price
Good point! In this case, the weight of the item is only 1 gram + plastic packaging + weight of paper COA, 3 or 4 grams at most...much lighter than any envelope I would use. I thought the low weight would make any weight stamp meaningless, but if you keep all the packaging a few grams difference should be detectable. In any case, I definitely cannot accept a return for the stated reason, that it is fake. As far as I can tell PayPal seller protection only applies to "Unauthorized Transaction; or Item Not Received." eBay does have a "Buying practices policy" and under "Buying behaviors we don't allow" there are 3 things that may apply in this case (numbers added by me): (1) Making unreasonable demands Demanding a partial refund or discount under threat of negative Feedback, low detailed seller ratings, or opening an eBay Money Back Guarantee request or PayPal Purchase Protection case. (2) Abusing the buyer protection programs Threatening to open an eBay Money Back Guarantee request or PayPal Purchase Protection case against a seller in order to get a discount or additional goods and services, when the item arrived in the described condition (3) Misusing returns Claiming an item isn't as described in the listing in order to circumvent a seller's return policy It was sealed in plastic, and I doubt it was actually tested. There is no actual case opened yet, just a return request, which is not up to eBay to accept or refuse. Just the threat "Or I will open a case with ebay and either way, I will get my money back."
I'm not sure if you have done anything yet, but being that no case has been opened yet I would talk to them. Sounds like they are just trying to scare you out of your money. I would mention you were not aware of having any fakes and you would like to know how it was tested. After they tell if they tell you, mention that the coin is authentic and you have the proof of purchase and there must be a mistake. Have them send it back with tracking and you will refund after you recieve it. Either they will cave and stick with the coin, or they will open a case which puts you directly where you are now. In order to have any legs to stand on if you do get scammed there will need to be a case opened either from you or them, hopefully you. If the coin,case, or anything affecting the value was damaged you should win. My hopes is they will feel caught and will reconsider. I wish the best of luck I know these things are annoying to deal with. I get people all the time that will claim something is not as described even though it was exactly right. They will request a 50% refund and to keep the item. I tell them I will only do a refund after the item is returned . They keep the item and leave me bad feedback since they couldn't rip me off. Its always low feedback buyers, gotta watch out for them =/
I did send a message to the buyer saying to get a second opinion, since I am completely confident in its authenticity. To send a message I had to use the contact link on the feedback page. You can't just reply to the return request message! In this case it is not some vague "not as described" claim...it is simple to prove that is is real. It may be that they are exploiting the format of eBay's message: The title is "Respond to the request" in big letters. Then there is a big button "See the request details" Somewhat too much under the button there is some small text "You can ask us to step in and help if there's a problem with the buyer's request." which I didn't even notice until now. Once you click "See the request details," You see the reason/comments, but you only have 3 options, Return, Refund, or Partial Refund! Then once again a big button, "Send reply" ! Of course I want to reply ASAP, but what if I didn't notice that there are options only to return or refund, and went ahead and just clicked the "Send reply" button? Tricky.
The only way I've ever gotten anywhere with e*ay is to file a statement of claim against them at the local court under "Small claims". Well I only had to threaten to do it. If it comes to it, and their actions cause you to suffer a loss, this may be your only recourse. They seem to try to avoid any court at all costs. And the small claims court has strict limits on legal fees.
Now in addition to the jeweler, she claims to have a "friend who owns a pawn shop," who "confirmed that it's not gold at all" How did they confirm this, I asked. No answer. Just "I tried to bend the coin with all my might and it wouldn't bend or anything. " (it is round, 1cm in diameter, hard to bend) One of the sellers that she bought from in the past month, said that they received the same email from this person! (The same email = the refund request quoted in the OP, I assume) The other seller from the past month only sells Turkish 1g gold bars, I didn't get a response from him. But now she is auctioning off one of the bars that he sells... WTF. I see no claims in ebay's future here. AFAICT this would be wire fraud + racketeering if the item shows up for sale in the probably-figment-of-her-imagination pawn shop.
Just sounds like an all around rotten person. If she took it out of the plastic packaging I would tell her you can not accept it because it has been altered. "It wouldn't bend" thats her official test...is she retarted. Its always a tough call with these people because you never know what they will try to pull to get thier way and almost certainly will leave a bad review. I want to know what the outcome is and if possible thier ebay name so I can add them to my block list
The problem with accepting the return is that they can just send a fake back to you and keep the real one. Any authenticity report they provide is useless as you don't know what they gave to be tested. Bet it wasn't what you sent them. The more you look at this, ebay is just not the place to sell your precious metals. To many ways to be screwed by dishonest people.
The next thing I sold, the weight of the package, as measured at the post office, was lighter than it really was. This is Japan, where all 50 stop lights at an intersection stay red for a full 3 seconds before one of them turns green, and nothing ever goes wrong. When something goes wrong, you have a major class of problems, like nuclear meltdown and postal scales being off by a hundred grams, unbelievable. This kept ebay out of my thoughts for a few days. Now that the other thing has arrived safely/weighing correctly, I am a bit relieved and feel like updating this. In summary: 1. The other seller said that they got their gold coin back, and are confident that it is the exact same coin that was sold. The reason for the return was the same, claiming that it was not gold. 2. I offer a refund if it is unopened, unbent, and sent back at the buyer's expense. Got a response that it has been opened, in order to test it. 3. I ask how it was tested, and for the contact info of whoever tested it. ... No response ... ... A few days pass ... 4. Buyer leaves positive feedback 5. I ask if it checked out OK ... No response ... FIN From looking at feedback, it looks like there was another gold coin that the buyer sent back. I can only presume this because the seller was selling the same coin again (description says the coin pictured is the one for sale etc...) ACK (apologies for esoteric references) BAR (sowwy)
