Buying Melted Gold

Morning all,
While purchasing some scrap jewellery recently had a guy ask if i was interested in buying some gold that had been in a house fire it was a fair lump weighing in around 100grams. He says it consists of mostly 18k gold chains and one small 9k chain which a couple of scratch tests confirm outside was 18k. He was asking what i thought was a good price given what it was,but leads me to the question what could be the big problems in this for me? I could try to research some places in Sydney to take it to get it XRF i guess? Will having that 9k melted in with it affect its value enough to not become worth it or will it just drop its overall purity as a whole? Would there be a market selling it as is or need to put more money into it to have it refined?

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated

 

I'd first satisfy myself that the gold has a providence. Not some stolen jewelry that has been disfigured to avoid identification.

 

The problem with buying an irregular lump is if anything is hidden underneath (ie any bits of rubbish - deliberate or non-deliberate).

Your best bet would be to cut the lump in half and get the lump analysed by XRF.

A lot of dealers have XRF machines and will be willing to test it for you for a few bucks.

 

Yeah thats what im thinking if it was melted in a jewellery box as described who is to say there wasnt costume jewellery melted in with the piece. Obviously after purchasing and taking the time to have it cut up and tested it then becomes my problem when not found to be all that its described. At the price i should have jumped at it but there is a voice in my head telling me not too so maybe for once i should listen

 

Trust the force.

 

Irregular lump could just be a rubbish (i.e other metal) coated with 18K gold.

Easy enough to melt gold with an acetylene torch.

 

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I would assume it has been melted because it was stolen.

If the guy offering you that was selling you scrap I'd be wondering where that scrap came from as well.
Be very careful buying scrap from unknowns - you could get into serious trouble if you then sell it to a dealer with your own id and it gets identified as stolen.

 

Good Point Goldpelican I didn't really consider about the whole heat thing. I am glad I took some time to think about it and didn't rush in. I also had the thought if his story is legit about the house fire and a insurance company has paid him out I guess by right the insurance company would now own that chunk.
Either way all your help has been great and I think ill steer way clear

 

Melting point of gold = 994 to 998 degress celcius

The higher the carat the hgher the temp

Maximum temp carboniferous fire = 648 degrees C

Anyone got some similar figures?

If true, should gold melt in a house fire?

I don't think so??

 

If the seller lives in bankstown, lakemba or anywhere in the south west of Sydney, I'd pass up this "bargain"....

 

Google comes up with 1050deg.

but that scientific melting point... you'd want to get it a good deal hotter for it to flow. 1200-odd Deg Cel

 

Regardless of how it came to be. Most Amateurs cant melt gold correctly, and when they mix in things that have a higher and lower melting temperature its like mixing ice cream flavors. Unless you get it all hot enough to melt to make a homogeneous or even alloy all the way though dont trust it.
the last things to melt are gold filled, a gold layered over copper or a base metal. First things to melt are low alloy like 9k 10k etc. Costume jewelry can have a high iron content.
And yeah, a lot of people mix junk jewelry with the good stuff so it cant be trusted. or they didn't know they had custom mixed it as is often the case

Until its even all the way any form of basic testing is only going to test part of it.

So if you buy based on the out side testing as one part that is a total crap shoot. go for it, you may win, you may lose big time.

I have had more than one customer come in thinking they scored big time on items that tested incorrectly or they did a surface test. Or have lost thousands being scammed by people with offers too good to be true.


Our experience with melted jewelry in house fires as a several thousand homes here in Colorado burned to the ground due to fires last year is that it depends on the fire.
Some melted, some did not, all of it was destroyed that made it too our refinery. Much of it just deformed bonded into other metals but did not completely melt. and had a lot of junk mixed in with it. But every house fire is different.

To buy it right you have to do this. This shows a melt and assay process so we can buy with in a couple percent of market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZUD65cqnr0&list=UU1uTZzmPrHNp_4LAhQ_FdLQ

 

I found that video interesting.

Out of curiosity - not being a chemist - when you pour the molten metal and flames are coming off, what's burning? Carbon? Or other metal ions, like sodium, etc?

Or is it the 'flux'?