safety deposit boxes - why non bank?

Discussion in 'Silver' started by acebass, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. House

    House Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Seriously? It seems to be a relatively common occurrence in the US. Have read plenty of stories over the years, especially from allegedly innocent people

    http://deadlyclear.wordpress.com/20...stomer-safe-deposit-box-and-removes-contents/

    http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=4832471

    http://archive.mises.org/16433/california-seizing-property-from-safety-deposit-boxes/

    Bit of Googling will turn up a lot more examples. Even for the UK.

     
  2. dccpa

    dccpa Active Member

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    All those ones you cited appear to be regarding the same Bank America-California incident that I mentioned. And none of them involve bank robbers, outside of government officials.

    All the banks around here use a two key system and the bank does not have a copy of your key. DHS could break into a lock box or two, but doing so on a large scale would make news and things would hit the fan. Anything is possible, but DHS breaking into SDBs is not something I would concern myself with.
     
  3. Kam

    Kam Active Member Silver Stacker

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    How can you be sure about that ?
     
  4. Golden ChipMunk

    Golden ChipMunk Well-Known Member

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    Bank do have spare keys.
    It happen in decease estates, where boxes need to open up for certain things.
    ie Wills
     
  5. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Some years ago thieves got into the SDB vault at a bank in Sydney's Chinatown and looted the boxes. Police were a little bemused because while clearly mega amounts of valuables were taken very few of the box owners were willing to say exactly what they had in the boxes to aid their return should the thieves be caught.
     
  6. Slam

    Slam Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I know about this case, that bank was dodgy period. It wasn't one of the big4. There have been rumours that it was an inside job (through the chinese community there) mostly, in those cases wouldn't the police ask for CCTV? who when in at what time and access records?

    My suggestion is to stick with the big 4. I know the SDB requires us to sign in and use 2 keys. BTW the waiting lists for these boxes are really long now, given that ANZ shut down their facilities in Martin Place at the beginning of this year. Thats an extra 5000 clients rushing into the other SDB facilities and turned away.

    I think this topic has been discussed in a thread prior, I still trust my big4 banks box rather than some private facility (even though its state of the art technology).

    Slam
     
  7. capt.sparrow

    capt.sparrow New Member

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    If you've been watching Breaking Bad then you would know how to hide your metal from the thieving government :lol:
     
  8. capt.sparrow

    capt.sparrow New Member

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    or maybe you just don't have that much in PM's ... :lol:
     
  9. capt.sparrow

    capt.sparrow New Member

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    lol @ the amount of apathy of some of those who contributed to this thread! :lol:

    Especially Bullion Baron - that was a real shocker to me!
     
  10. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    While that is true...

    Bikes do get nicked
    Bags do get snatched
    Tradie vans and worksites do get broken into
    Houses get burgled
    and people get mugged

    The fact that most people have little concern about this could be why it happens when it does.

    I have friends over from South Africa, they can't believe how much stuff gets left unattended, how much people carry around on them and how little care they take of their posessions. I guess people are not as desperate as they are in South Africa but I am just as concerned about the above as I am about my PMs.
     
  11. Silver Pauper

    Silver Pauper Member

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    My view on PM's is that they are an alternate fiscal storage facility to a savings account, term certificates, stocks, and etc... nothing more and nothing less. So their worth is only the value of goods or services that I can get in exchange which is equal to the price of the currency of my locale. Outside of this gold and silver has little or no value if you are not into jewelry or looking for specific thermal or conductive properties. 1kg of fine tool steel has a lot more inherent worth than 1kg of gold or silver.

    And if you are stacking gold and silver for a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event and you do not have direct control of your PM's, you are out of business. Banks, vaults, hoards, stashes, bunkers, and etc are going to be targets of organised and overwhelming violence which in most cases the guardian or caretaker is not going to exchange his life for your metal. And you think that you are going to be able to trundle down to your bank or vaulting service to collect your metals and think that you and the dozens of others doing the same are not targets as well? Good luck, because when the SHTF, the world of teddy bears, butterfly kisses and unicorns is long over.

    And I agree things are stolen all the time, so do your own due diligence and develop a security plan that works for your community, which may include deceit, rottweilers, holes in the ground, etc and etc, just as you would carry a bike lock, keep tools in secure boxes, etc and etc. Not that hard to take responsibility for what is yours instead of depending on someone else to do it for you.
     
  12. Midnight Man

    Midnight Man Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm just trying to figure out why Guardian Vaults would need a bail out... it's not like they're a bank with loans out there that can go bad (a la 2008 in the USA) or suffer a "bank run" that might predicate the doors being closed?
     
  13. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Any organization storing goods for you that acquires debt may subject you to problems. Let us assume they default on rent (if they don't own the building but rent it) or acquire other debt that they default on. It is then possible that the debtor may attach through a court their property.
    The court may incorrectly assume the contents of their vault is theirs and attach these items - your bullion. While you may eventually prove that the property is not the custodians but yours it may cause you many months of angst. Then of course the insurance - do you pay the insurance company directly - probably not. If the custodian does not pay the policy you may be out of pocket in the event of a loss. There are many other possible issues with storing valuables or bullion.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ha yeah, that or "what is silver?"
     
  15. boyracer

    boyracer Member

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    They could fail just like any company could. The likelihood in that situation the boxes could be looted by owners/management is I would think extremely low but certainly possible.

    I asked them what happened if I lost my keys and they would charge me to drill out the lock so there is a contingency in place for them to access boxes without keys - obviously protocol in that instance would be to do so with box owner (renter) present.
     
  16. Axolotl_

    Axolotl_ New Member

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    I was told by my bank that if I die or lose the key that it would have to be bored out and rebuilt, in the case of me losing my key I would be billed for the work. They could have been lying but I don't think so.
     
  17. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Correct!
     
  18. trew

    trew Active Member Silver Stacker

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    That is what I would expect for a dual key operated system.

    That might be available at a big CBD branch of a bank but from what I understand (might be wrong here), many suburban bank branches don't have this facility.
    There are no keys or even boxes for that matter - you basically provide a metal box that they store inside their safe for you.
    In this scenario how easy would it be for a bank employee with gambling problems to just walk out with your 'box' ?

    Not sure what the waiting lists are like for the big branch proper boxes.
    Banks don't seem to be building any new facilities.
     
  19. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    It depends on the size of the branch.

    Many/most branches had NIL storage apart from a cash safe with maybe a small amount of spare room to put an envelope with a title or share certificates.

    Some has a small 'strong room' that may have had room for a customers locked box, with padlock from Bunnings. The top of the service range was the Safe Custody Department usually deep in the basement of Head Office.

    Each box there had 2 keys, one in the possession of the customer, and the other under the control of the Manager of the department. BOTH had/have to be in the box at the same time. The Manager had NIL idea of the contents, and had NIL legal right to ask or get an answer. The Banks has NIL Title to those contents. The government can do what it effing well likes, but is STILL governed by Section 51 (xxxi).

    NIL spares, and drilling was the only way to get past that need. A lost key was $200 to drill out and refit. They cannot get into the box with only one key.

    When I was in Westpac in the 1980s they even had mink coats on hangers, and works of art wrapped in protective wrapping. Stacks of locked tool boxes, and all in an untidy MESS. All that was in addition to the normal drawers of about 5 different sizes.


    OC
     
  20. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    PS,

    My friend was the Manager of ours, and he felt certain that much of Melbourne's drugs were stored there, and "if a sniffer dog was put there it would go mad". No real proof of course!


    OC
     

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