Principality of Hutt River Silver Coin & FOI Request

Discussion in 'Silver' started by dagsgarrett, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. dagsgarrett

    dagsgarrett Member Silver Stacker

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    Principality of Hutt River

    Today I received my Hutt River 2008 38th Anniversary Commemorative $30.00 .999 Silver Coin, Whether you believe Hutt River successfully seceded from the Commonwealth of Australia or not you have to admit that is a fascinating part of Australia's history.

    For those who may be interested I am currently in the process of receiving under the Freedom of Information Act 1982, documents in regards to the Principality of Hutt River from the Australian Governments Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. You can follow the progress of this FOI request via the Right to Know organisations website.

    If you haven't heard of the Right to Know Organisation, it is a website based initiative that allows everyday people to request information under the Freedom of Information Act 1982 from the Australian Government.

    Please utilise this organisation and insure we the people receive greater transparency from our government.

    Link to my FOI Request

    https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/principality_of_hutt_river_provi#outgoing-615

    Pictures of Coin

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Absolutely fantastic work by you, and please post updates.
     
  3. dagsgarrett

    dagsgarrett Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks Agnostic will post an update when I receive documents
     
  4. Silverfreak

    Silverfreak New Member

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    Hi dagsgarrett,

    I don't know much about coin collecting but I think you will find this interesting.

    Regardless of what one thinks about Prince Leonard and his seccession of Hutt River Province (now called the Principality of Hutt River) from the Commonwealth of Australia in 1970, there is no doubt that there have been many rare and interesting coins issued by Prince Leonard over the last 43 years.

    The 2008 10g .999 $30 Silver 38th Anniversary coin you have just purchased has a mintage of 1000.

    I think the real Hutt River coins always have Prince Leonard's name and most have his head on them and are always very low mintage and very collectable.

    To the best of my knowledge the good stuff to get your hands on are the Proof coins / sets from 1976 - 1980 and Proof coins / sets issued from 2000 to the present day.

    Along with the 1976 Proof 5c 10c 20c 50c set - mintage 2000, 1977 Proof 5c 10c 20c 50c set - mintage 1000 and 1978 Proof 5c 10c 20c 50c set - mintage 500, there are also several rare Proof $100 gold coins and $30 silver coins from the late 70's that have a nice low mintage of 500 that are well worth collecting if you can find and afford them and there are also a couple of Holey Dollar coins issued in 77 and 78.

    1977 Holy Dollar has Queen's Jubilee written on one side - mintage 1000 and the 78 version is the same coin but omits the Queen's Jubilee part - mintage 1000 ?.

    1976 - HRP $100 gold and $30 silver have the Royal Seal on one side and PL on the other side.

    1977 - HRP $100 gold and $30 silver have A Bald Eagle on one side and PL on the other side.

    1978 - HRP $100 gold and $30 silver have the Captain Cook's ship and the words Hawaii Bicentenary on one side and PL on the other side.

    1979 - HRP $100 gold and $30 silver have the Skylab on one side and PL on the other side.

    1980 - HRP $100 gold and $30 silver have Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother on one side and PL on the other side.

    The 2000 30th Anniversary $100 8g .999 gold Biblical Gateway Proof coin has a incredibly low mintage of 25 and I have number 4 in my collection. :D

    All coins issued since 2000 can be seen on the Principality of Hutt River website but are mostly sold out or running very low.

    Although I have been researching Hutt River coins for some time, it has been quite difficult to find much detailed information about the ones from the early years online and as Prince Leonard himself does not have a complete set and does not seem to remember all the details, then some of what I am sharing here may need fixing up if more info on the subject comes to light.

    Also, there are probably other great Hutt River coins that I am not aware of and so have not mentioned here.

    The American style HRP rounds mass produced in the early 80's through to the mid 90's were issued by a businessman scammer from Qld who died in the mid 90's and as far as I understand, they are not official Principality coins but they do unfortunately have the words Hutt River Province on them. :(

    Anyway, my wife just got back to Geraldton this afternoon from attending Princess Shirley's funeral in Fremantle yesterday.
    I did not attend for health reasons as I am currently undergoing chemotherapy and did not really feel up to the travel.

    We are very close friends of Prince Leonard and his family and were married in his little chapel at Hutt River in 1996.
    He is a real character with a great sense of humor but is also an extremely knowledgable man.

    Knowing Prince Leonard as well as I do and with the recent passing of his wonderful companion of over 66 years I am now wondering if there could possibly be a new commemorative coin issue in the near future but I am just speculating at this time.

    I hope this information is helpful to all collectors with an interest in these unusual and very rare coins from Hutt River.


    SF :)
     
  5. boston

    boston Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    +1 Certainly interested as well.
     
  6. dagsgarrett

    dagsgarrett Member Silver Stacker

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    Dear Silverfreak,

    I thank you for taking the time to provide me with your knowledge of The Principality of Hutt River Coins, I also thank you for providing some of your own personal experiences with Prince Leonard and his family. I myself have just recently sent off my application to become a non-resident subject of Hutt River and would love to visit and meet Prince Leonard, thanks again and I wish you good health and positive thoughts in your recovery.
     
  7. Caput Lupinum

    Caput Lupinum Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I have the 38th anniversary coin. Lenny sells them on ebay for about $60
     
  8. Silverfreak

    Silverfreak New Member

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    Yes, this is a very nice little coin and it has PL's personal coat of arms on it.

    It does not say on the COA or website but I have made enquiries and the mintage is 1000.
    This one will certainly be highly sort after by collectors of Hutt River coins in the future and I believe there are less than 10 left now. :cool:

    http://www.principality-hutt-river.org/PHR_38th_Anniversary_Coin.htm

    SF :)
     
  9. dagsgarrett

    dagsgarrett Member Silver Stacker

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  10. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Thank you dagsgarrett for doing this research and uncovering a goldmine of documentation.

    You are a legend.

    I have just started reading the first one.

    There is a LOT of information there.

    Some initial observations:

    1. Audi private bank (in Switzerland?) did not allow HRP to open a bank account, AND informed on them to the Australian Government. The attitude in their correspondence is clearly that of ingratiating themselves to the Australian Government. Message - be very wary of banks, even Swiss private ones.

    2. HRP were deemed to be non-residents of Australia by the ATO and were not charged any tax and received a refund - HUGE WIN.

    3. Lots of other Governments inform on HRP's actions to the Australian Government - conclusion - they are all in this "Government" racket together.

    Thanks again,

    Agnostic
     
  11. dagsgarrett

    dagsgarrett Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for your comments,

    A lot of the scams that are mentioned in the cables involved opportunistic people and some well documented individuals trying to make a dollar and take advantage of the name of the PHR. I have also been in touch with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Principality and they have said that this is an ongoing issue which is now some what contained by the use of the Internet and their security department. Which in the early days didn't exist so was harder to keep tract of those people mentioned above, although this also creates it's own problems with fake websites ect. The only way that you can become a non resident subject or purchase a passport of the Principality is directly via them so if you were to purchase or be offered one through other means it is most probably fraudulent.

    I found this exercise very interesting and if any thing it has taught me how to speak with our own government departments and how to request information under the FOI Act 1982, I also received an insight as to how other governments operate with ours.

    Kind regards
     
  12. boston

    boston Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It really is self preservation, as no country wants it's jurisdiction/tax base eroded by secessionists.
     
  13. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Good work on successfully getting through the bureaucracy. A real achievement.

    I found the comments on page 193 (made in 1985 I think) interesting:

     
  14. Byron

    Byron Guest

    After the crap this "Dr" Ada Cheung put you through, it is clear the FOI act is a turtle-heading joke.

    My sincere congrats Ben for sticking it out and getting access to at least some of the documents.

    It is clear that public servants hold the rest of us in contempt.
     
  15. Matthew 26:14

    Matthew 26:14 New Member

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    Ring up any government department and say you want protection under the whistleblower act. About the first thing they will ask you is your name......contrary to the act.
     
  16. RT

    RT New Member

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    Have seen people go through wistleblowing in workplaces, it is anything but private. The whole thing at times seems set up to identify and single out anyone who wont fall into line. Even those who have successfull complaints can end up drummed out at a later date by the rest of management / bosses.

    Had a mate go through it and he said it was a brutal experience, he was treated like he was in the wrong right to the end of the investigation when he was proven right but ended up only staying on another 6 mths as the rest of management made his life a living hell while at work (of course, nothing could be proven) mean while, the manager who was at fault got transfered sideways into another department and continued to climb the ladder there like nothing happened.



    Good to see Ben got the info through the FOI. You would think seeing as we the tax payers pay their wages, the public servents would do just that and serve us.
     
  17. RT

    RT New Member

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    Would be interesting to see what happened if this were not the case.
     
  18. Silverfreak

    Silverfreak New Member

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    What is most intriuging to me about PHR is the fact that the official Commonwealth and state government stance is that PHR is just a farm that operates a tourism based business and its people are treated the same as any other australian citizens.

    If that is true, then I would really like to know why the tax department considers both Prince Leonard and Princess Shirley to be non-residents of Australia and has not charged them any income tax for many years, although I am certain that they have tried very hard to find a way to make them pay.

    Obviously, Australian politicions are hell bent on containing the situation but it will become quite clear to anyone who cares to look a little closer into this enigmatic story that there is much more to this than any politician will ever admit to the general public.

    Put it this way, if any member of SS (and his family) "Officially" declared war on Aust for a few days, raised their own flag, stopped paying income tax for 43 years, had coins (not rounds) minted and stamp sets issued, had thousands of tourists from all around the world visit every year and have there passports stamped by the self proclaimed Prince of the realm and the activities of this person seeking to obtain recognition of his Principalities independence by dozens of foreign governments continued to cause the Australian authorities so many problems, what do you think would happen to that SS member and his family?

    I very much doubt that they would be left alone for 43 years+ to continue such activities and then declared to be non-residents of Australia by the taxation department.

    Someone is telling porky pies and somehow I don't think it is HRH Prince Leonard.
     
  19. RT

    RT New Member

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    I read through a little on the PHR web site, it seems that from a legal stand point, they have succeded from Australia and there is nothing the government can do except maybe invade and take the land back by force? I would guess that it would end in to much trouble in the international press for them to bother with and its not like PHR is causing problems for the Aust government to warrent them taking that action.

    PHR took a stand, instead of buying into the circus that is politics. It seems like they met every legal requirement to break away. Good on them for it.

    Had a quick read through some of the documents and interesting to see the mineral wealth is claimed also in the name of the royal family. Must be the only land holder in Australia to have this.
     

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