1) Reference case. Spot price $30 1 ouncer price $35 Premium is 100*(35-30)/30 = 16,67% <- same premium For $1000 you receive 29 ounces. 2) Same premium case. Spot price $20 1 ouncer price $23,33 Premium is 100*(23,33-20)/20 = 16,67% <- same premium, lower spot price than 1) For $1000 you receive 43 ounces. <- premium didn't affect the amount ounces, only spot did, $30 is $20+50% so you receive 29+50%=43 ounces. 3) Higher premium case. Spot price $20 1 ouncer price $25 Premium is 100*(25-20)/20 = 25% <--- higher premium, same spot price as 2) For $1000 you receive 40 ounces. <- higher premium lowered the amount ounces. Premiums measured and compared, as % of spot. Yet, you start to measure premiums in $, to then run into the spot price dependence you just created yourself. Measure and compare premiums in %, then you don't have a spot price dependence. You introduced your premium dependence on the price yourself, by your $ measurement of premium, see the bold tagged.
thats what were in the game for... if PMs were fairly priced why invest in them. We invest in PMs because we believe they are under valued. If the are under valued now they logically could be even more under valued in the future. A stacker has to ask themselves 3 questions IMHO... 1) "Are PMs manipulated down?" If Yes then 2) "Will this manipulation end?" If yes then 3) "what will make it end?" My Answer to the last question is, it will end when industry (maybe a little investment) depletes above ground resources so that the fiction that silver is plenteous dispels. At the moment Silver is made to seem common/over supplied due to the paper game and fictional reserve banking. When the futures markets cannot deliver to industry (maybe a little investment) that is when the end game is. Us stackers mean little to zip when it comes to the end game. Industry will be the straw that break the camels back. When Apple stands for delivery on a 5000oz contract needed to make it's iPhone6 and is told it can settle the contract in cash only then and only then will we see a disconnect in 1000oz bars and it will be on for young and old, because it is not like apple can make iPhones with USD instead of Ag
1) "Are PMs manipulated down?" Fred buys. Joe buys. Fred sells. Joe complains. Joe :sad: sells. Fred blames manipulation. 2) "Will this manipulation end?" Depends on Joe. 3) "what will make it end?" Joe waiting to buy until Fred sells. Joe not selling after Fred sold. Fred failing to sell much higher. Fred failing to buy back in much lower.
So you don't believe Gold is manipulated? What about CPI? BLBS? Unemployment? National debt? Any manipulation there? http://www.gata.org/node/8052 The question is not, "is there manipulation?", that is admitted. The question is why wouldn't they???? If I was in their position I would. No downside all upside, they would be stupid not to. Gold is the anti-dollar, it is enemy #1 to fiat printing, which is their only resort But personally I believe that the fed is only part of the manipulation picture. I believe the PBOC is one of the biggest offenders and is short paper and long phys, which is exactly my position ATM.
Yes, I find the same thing annoying. My dealer has the following prices (approximate prices) on 1 oz coins: 28-29 $ Koalas 32 $ Kookaburras 34-35 $ Pandas 31 $ American Eagles Often 10-12 $ premiums per coin. This is insane! If you buy bars, you might get closer to the normal price. An alternative that I recommend is to buy Austrian Philharmonic, Somali coins and Suriname coins. Some of them cost 26-27 $, which is roughly 4 $ premium over spot.
Where do you see that? I don't see much change... Some still have 10 $ premiums on Kookaburras and 12 $ on Pandas!
Not at the moment. On the sidelines. If breaks $22 will short silver with target of $20.10 to go long once again stops @$19.80(waiting for long entry point), if breaks through stops same game @$18. Will convert paper long positions into phys once over $26.50 if it ever gets there Best laid plans n all
The high premiums explained by Morgan.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIF_xUxEbs&feature=youtu.be
Before this big drop I think it seemed a good deal for me to be able to get a generic 10oz bar for spot + 6% before shipping costs if I bought cash in person at a shop. Now it seems more common to only be able to find this closer to spot + 10%. @Holdfast: It sounds like you believe dealers are charging this premium to make a quick profit. What do you consider to be their actual costs? Spot? Spot + 3%? Even COMEX spot has added fees for taking actual delivery of 1000oz of silver. I agree that we can vote with our wallets and buy from the dealers who give us the best price and service. Its nice to get the best deal on phys silver. But this is a good debate now at this point that spot has fallen so low, that it's not an accurate phys price.
Picked up kooks and koalas last week in bulk at $4 over spot and 100 oz bars at $2.50 over spot. Buying small amounts or singles, everywhere is higher.
I meant for regular coins like Eagles, I've seen some good deals around. It's my guess that the premiums will not come down much on Pandas or Kooks until we see a bounce. It really sucks because the two coins I've been waiting to stack are the kooks and Pandas, just my luck! :/
Are you guys stacking silver or the stuff stamped on them? Through all this turbulence 10oz bars at my Canadian dealer have been between 2 to 2.50 per ounce.
There are many reasons to be stacking semi-numismatics. Honestly if you had bought bullion in 2011 @ $35, you would be underwater more than $10/coin. However if you were stacking 2011 Kookaburras, your coins would be worth $45-$50 right now. I think the choice is clear- stack semi-numismatics. So I guess to answer your question, I am stacking what is printed on the coin, silver can stay suppressed for 10+ years and my investments will be rising the entire time. Trust me- go semi-numis I'm actually currently working on a video series regarding this topic, it will be posted in the "Silver Coins" section when I'm done. I'm going to lay out all of the reasons why we should all be buying semi-numis over regular bullion.
I like to keep it really simple. people are buying other stocks that are making them money. silver is a sinking ship today people who are not anti establishment don't give a shit where they make money from. they are not going to jump on a sinking ship and I am inclined to agree what I think really only matters to me I understand that but I would be buying rarer numismatic coins or even semi numismatic coins. I think we can see cycles in markets , I think we can see cycles in life. people don't like eating the same thing for dinner every night. I have some decimal numismatic coins that have been on the nose for 5 years but that will change. we all talk about not being sheepeople on here, but like it or not they run the world and they have all the cash only thing I have ever made any cash on is numismatics or semi numismatics . have to have money to make money this is a rich mans game like most of life, but hey poor people like me can mess around with this stuff but for the most part its not a winning game. bills come up bla bla bla and if silver is down and I have to sell some to fix the car then buzzh I lose and who wins ?? anyway just my thoughts on the matter doesn't mean I am right doesn't mean I am wrong just means I have my experience. PS I like my friends saying buy high sell low
