The Libertarian Answer to Everything Is...

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by Yippe-Ki-Ya, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    +1
     
  2. GiLa

    GiLa New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Dwarf Bowling - isnt that from the book The Wolf of Wall Street? Jordan Belfort, I remember reading something about dwarfs bowling within their office.
     
  3. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Dwarf tossing.

    Quite perverted really :p

    Edit: Oh. The other type of dwarf tossing :lol:
     
  4. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
     
  5. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    ^ Seems so simple when put like that doesn't it? How could anyone not be for that?
     
  6. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    +1.

    As I have been coming to the conclusion in the "Mediation, compensation and incarceration" thread, it's simply that Libertarians believe in natural rights and actually take them seriously. From natural rights flows alienable and inalienable rights, along with private property rights leading directly to laissez-faire capitalism and Austrian economics. It is a holistic system that essentially interconnects all aspects of human society (and with further development, no doubt will allow interconnection with other things as well).

    Given my Darwinist bent, it's interesting to think about why natural rights legal systems have not dominated cultures historically. They are definitely evident but my initial thinking is that they were initially quashed in various ways by the inherent xenophobia and tribalism in all mammals and then perverted and quashed further by religion which doesn't advocate natural rights. Hence, it wasn't until the separation of religion and state occurred (in the west at least) that natural rights advocates were allowed to begin to gain sway with key documents like the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence. It would be interesting to learn more of the Eastern histories to see why natural rights legal systems didn't (seem to) exist.
     
  7. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I've seen you mention Stefan Molyneux's name. I don't know how much of his stuff you have listened but he looks into this kind of thing a lot.

    He talks about things like religion and government basically being rooted in early childhood experience and the more I think about it the more I tend to agree. The psychohistory stuff is really interesting (http://www.psychohistory.com/), though very disturbing at first, takes a while to get your head around, but it does seem that the history of humanity has largely been a history of child abuse with the attendant adult societal problems it brings, not least of which is war. As we all know, the abused tend to become abusers in one long cycle.
     
  8. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Thanks. Mostly I've only listened to Stefan on freedomain radio rather than read his writings. From various other things I've read the child abuse idea may well have a lot of merit.
     
  9. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    It sounds like you are like me and want to get to the absolute bottom and make sense of the crazy society we are in. It's like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Here's a couple of pieces

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEo-NoEquas[/youtube]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNLq1Y_OFEQ[/youtube]
     
  10. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
    So the answer is what?
     
  11. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    :lol:
    Not obvious huh? (And it's a question ;) )


    Maybe Nick should have made it a bit clearer.

    Libertarian: "If it moves, privatise it. If it doesn't move, privatise it."
    Person A: "But who would do XXX?"
    Libertarian: "How much are you willing to pay?"
    Person B: "But how would YYY happen?"
    Libertarian: "How much are you willing to pay?"
    :
    :
     
  12. Yippe-Ki-Ya

    Yippe-Ki-Ya New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    The Land of Guilty by Default
    41 ?
     
  13. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    NSW
    If you haven't read it already, Richard Dawkins book, The God Delusion , pretty much explains the child abuse side of religion.

    http://www.freedrive.com/file/251407
     
  14. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    ^ Thanks DanDee. I actually have all of Richard's books. GD is a great read and now that you remind me has a significant amount on this topic even if only tangentially.
     
  15. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Thanks. Quite a range of interesting topics in those videos.

    I'd be interested to hear from psychiatrists or social workers about the "anger is needed to break the cycle of abuse" / "legitimate outrage is blocked by society" stuff around 20min

    Many things to like but I like the comments around 55min = "Society as we know it cannot survive voluntarism. So much of adult society is compelled." I also like Stefan's optimism about significant societal change. Yes, there are a lot of very strong forces working against change but it could be done in one generation principally through the promotion of voluntarism by parents.
     
  16. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Well, it's delving into all this childhood stuff (I've been reading some books as well lately) that has helped me understand not only the insane and irrational behaviour of my own immediate and extended family, but also many of the people who I encounter, friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, etc and from there helps you understand the events of history. It's really been a revelation, but it's hard to look at because it means you end up having to examine your own history and how you got where you are.

    For example, it gives a good explanation, I think, for WW1, which on the face of it is hard to make any sense of at all.
     
  17. Yippe-Ki-Ya

    Yippe-Ki-Ya New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    The Land of Guilty by Default
    +1000

    This is absolutely brilliant stuff!
    I regard the current status quo of big government / welfare state as a modern incarnation of slavery - plain and simple!
    It will be interesting to see whether the sheeple will ever comprehend this - and what will happen if/once they do...
     
  18. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    I was reminded of the "My name is Sel" scene from one of the weirdest movies of all time (the 1973 movie - The Holy Mountain) and I found it on youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5iLsE1uV7M

    Watch first 5 seconds then skip ahead to about 3:00min with the juicy bit starting at 3:30min.
     
  19. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Not the best thread, but this article on Mises isn't too bad for those interested. (Minarchists might like it more than anarcho-capitalists.)

    He clearly has a lot of assertions and holes and others have done a better job than he has, but I liked it anyway as it stimulates the thinking juices by trying to think about the issues, flaws, etc. I liked his idea of simplifying down to "Resources can be obtained by discovery, production, exchange, gift, or by taking from others by force" and start building up from there.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's Stephan Molneux guy has some good points but is to wishy washy for my liking, it's as if he tackles philosophical problems with the mind alone, he just jibber jabbers with verbal dribble.
     

Share This Page