RARITY

Here is the main flaw of the assumption that the guy with food is knowledgeable. Turn off the internet (can happen, right?) and the major source of information gone. Let alone the authenticity if those pieces which will be much difficult to prove in SHTF times.

right, but let's say, how many people in your neighborhood know about art and numis? how many of them know about numismatic? how many of them might want what you have?
that's the questions, not the world population of collectors ... I don't bet on the good work of postal services at SHTF times, so the market is limited to local destinations.

well, it's all personal of course and no need in arguing the beliefs.
I have both but lean towards having PM close to spot ... the best bet for me are numis with PM content that I am getting close to spot


P.S. as of Leningrad, I was writing about common people who had pieces of art at their homes, not about state collections or collectors with the sources to whom to sell. If one has the level of art Hermitage possesses then we are talking about very rich collectors.

 

Thanks WorldBubble, it's interesting discussing these ideas with you.

Indeed, different SHTF scenarios would end with different results.

But like I was saying to Hotel 46 with those Pre-Dec pics, when the time comes, there will likely be counterfeit bullion coins everywhere too. So it's not really fair to depict that only numis will be hard to authenticate. Even shillings were counterfeited and put into circulation, but the fake 1930s pennies were detected.

In regards to Leningrad, I understand what you are saying. My response was in reference to "art was worth less then loaf of bread" which doesn't exactly tell the whole story.

 

The other thing with Lenningrad and a loaf of bread is that a numi still has the intrinsic value of an weight of copper, silver, gold etc so you would still be able to buy bread if you had to.

I would rather buy some live food like fruit or veggies but I suppose bread gives you a full feeling at any rate. :lol:

 

Yennus, another example ... very recent, not a SHTF, but it taught me a lot, that some PM is not a good way, in my case it was silver - Disaster in Fukushima, and more important - the uncertainty that was in Japan for several weeks.
I had to move out of the country fast, and had no time to walk around selling the coins to coin shops or list them on the auction ... after several days my best choice was going to offer them to pawnshop. For the silver worth 4k I was offered $200 ... no more, even though the pawnshop specializes in antiques and PMs. 1st I asked them what would they offer for the coins and they called several employees to check that big stack of silver coins. I asked them one more time when they started openning the capsules in order to check the authenticity of silver with the equipment they had, so I thought it was worth the efforts, but after hearing the offer I ran away. My choice was to leave the stack with the friend to keep it until I get back if I would.
So, the bullion was hit badly as well ... silver in my case.
As for gold and platinum I could get spot in myriads of shops that buy this two metals.

Before this event my gold/silver ration was about 100 ... now it is 47 and I working without rush to bring it down.

in such times there is no time for education both for buyers and sellers ...
But keep stacking anything of value that might be valuable tomorrow not because of SHTF (which always finish) but because of existence of other fundamentals - is a smart choice.
Not keeping all the eggs in one basket AND not keeping one very precious egg in a pocket are very important to consider.

 

how would you feel if you bought the numismatic coin 5 times the PM price, but was treated like it was just a metal?
it is very difficult and consuming to store food for unknown period of time ... much easier with PMs

 

Thanks worldbubble. That's a very interesting experience you had. Sorry you went through that episode.

Perhaps start you should start a different thread detailing what you went through.

I'd like to hear more about it.

E.g. What were the difficulties in relocating your stack? How much notice did you have when things started to hot? Does Japan have any restrictions on the movement of silver/gold?

I'm keen to hear more. Thanks!

 

I was just saying that (I have not personally studied these facts but) although art alledgedly went to worthless pms would still have that base intrinsic value

 

Yep, and after the conflict, the numis/art would have the potential to rise significantly above the metal content too.

 

I just left the stack with the boxes in a garbage bag with a friend ... in half a year that garbage bag was sitting as I left it )) I was collecting war orders and medals of Japan. I sold them to one forum member and sent them within hr just not making sure if I've got the payment (relied totally on honesty and promise to pay which was kept).
As of stack movement I had not much so that I'would be stopped by officials though I don't know if there are any restrictions for movement of metal.
As of customs regulations precious metals and coins can be moved in the country without any taxes ... so, exporting them out of Japan should be tax free as well (rules of WTO I believe).

Now I have more stacked and more vulnerable to move-fast scenarios, though I've relocated some coins to different countries


So, Yennus, I haven't analyzed "the story" thoroughly, just few comments from the past. Maybe if I had some tell-the-story skills I could have done a better job in telling people what happens when one in a rush to liquidate. Thought for a consideration would be - in a rush demand and supply changes: demand goes down supply goes up ... What is desired today might not be desired tomorrow just because of some circumstances. So try to be prepared for this kinds of events as well.

 

maybe that should be a time to buy arts for PMs?!

 

'argumentum ad hominem'

Of course i am arguing the person and not the argument

You are the Panda moderator of the Panda forum that promotes the popularity and ultimate sales of Panda's.
Does that not also increase your own wealth base?



'Conflict of interest'?

When you give pro Panda advice and drop a statement like this
'Not at every chance... just when they get the fundamentals wrong'

Ok.i would require 3 pages to explore that one,needless to say his points were quite valid..b.u.t..just didn't include Panda's.

As to liquidity 'Worldbubble seems to have explained it to my satisfaction in quite concise plain english
based on experience as Ferfal also did highlighting the advantages of holding highly liquid assets and the downside of big ticket top pyramid items in a Cash crisis economydare i say it.Like we are in now.

REDBACK

Apologies cross posting was necessary to address the whole arguement.

 

if the SHTF PM's will be a less valuable commodity than guns and ammo

both of which I have plenty of

 

Agree,but that is an even bigger step in reality than many are willing to face.

REDBACK

 

World bubble sorry to hear your troubles.

Even though it is not popular on this forums I am advocate of having a small fiat stack in case of emergency situations. In your safe deposit box and a small pack at home. I have USD ,Euro, UK pounds and Singapore dollars in small and large denominations.

 

do you have enough arms to handle guns? ))


someone might find it interesting to read ... quote from the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow"by Daniel Kahneman

So SHTF if happens might be not the like most expect and the amos with guns might be useless

 

^^^^^^^
+10

 

^^^I still think the best commodity is the human mind, it can be used for good or evil. The universe is an awesome feedback mechanism, we mostly choose evil and the world mostly gets worse. Some folks choose good and they mostly get assasinated (or have attempts). Guns and ammo are good and all but I still think if you can't think on your feet in times of trouble you will be in trouble. Humans will evolve if we choose good otherwise welcome to planet Earth.

 

Digoxin, at the time of happening it was a trouble that changed my pace of life, but now it's just an experience and all things went back to normal though I've become a little smarter )))

As of fiat - very good point. It always helps. I have it at the pillow now ... enough to survive 2 months without interacting with the banking system, which can be turned off within seconds (learn by the faults of MF Global - the same can be done with any institution and all at once). So, for survival stack (the word not appropriate for fiat) of different nominations of currency might be helpful.
As well having fiat ready maybe a good thing when bargains arise.





P.S. Good always defeats bad.
If bad defeats good then bad becomes good and all is back to new normal which is good always defeats bad :lol:

 

I love the quote from the question-
"Do you believe there is intelligent life in the Universe?"
Answer-"Of course,they haven't visited us yet"

REDBACK

 

Being prepared w/ food supplies, guns, ammo, and silver (and rare coins) is the highest priority. The supply of silver is low and the buyers are huge so someday bullion could be rare. Rare coins will have their day...........