Any PerthMint Folks wants to shed some real lights on PMCP or PerthMint Depository program? Anyone seen any 3rd party audit report on physical metals in PerthMint? http://blog.milesfranklin.com/?p=4672 blog.milesfranklin.com / By Andrew Hoffman / October 19th, 2012 Read the Thursday Afternoon Wrap-Up for 10/18/2012 and the Friday Morning Commentary for 10/19/2012 There are just five MAJOR bullion mints in the U.S., Canada, South Africa, Austria, and Australia. I have never been certain why they are deemed more "trustworthy" than private mints given governments' sorrowful history with TRUTH; however, not a single counterfeit coin has EVER been sourced from these mints. That said, long-time readers know my emphasis between the TRUTH of PHYSICAL PMs, and the LIES of PAPER markets. With essentially ZERO exceptions, if you purchase a "promise" to deliver gold and silver, there is a good chance you'll NEVER see it. Thus, the quandary of Perth Mint Certificates; i.e., 'certificates of ownership' of gold stored in Perth Mint vaults. In many ways, the Perth Mint program mirrors Miles Franklin's storage program in Montreal, Canada. In other words, you are given a certificate stating you are the owner of Precious Metals stored in their vault. However, given Perth's long distance from the Western world and lack of a personal connection between your metal and the Perth Mint (Miles Franklin officers personally audit the Montreal vault each quarter) it is difficult to ascertain if Perth mint held metal exists. [More]...http://blog.milesfranklin.com/?p=4672
Huh, sounds like some yankee is talking down to us..... I'm pretty sure i've seen one of those audit reports
Like some parts of the media. An ignorant blog with sensationalist topics gets the most views. Blog win. Information fail. Rule of thumb: Author needs to resort to CAPITALS sporadically throughout their article.... probably lacks credibility.
Anyone got any 3rd party audited report of Perth Mint's program? May be Bron can respond whether the PMDP have physical metals 100% stored in Perth Mint vaults in perth or just paper contracts in LBMA? or physical metals stored with Bullion banks of LBMA like JPM, Brinks, HSBC, Scotia? Bron? Any perthmint representative here?
The FRAUD article he links to is from 2008. And the blog title strangely bears the same name as the storage program in Canada that he is flogging - er, recommending. And, if he doesn't have enough evidence to dish out dirt on the PM Prpgram then why use Perth Mint fraudulent as one of the subtitles? All seems a bit sensationalist. And, where is Montreal anyway, Canada is a long way away, How do we really know it's there.
Bold claims for a company to be making - the rest of the article not quoted is an offer to sell you THEIR storage services by taking delivery of Perth Mint gold, having it shipped to Canada, and stored under their control. Not sure I would entrust my storage of metals to a company that so blatantly spruiks debunked material in their advertorials.
Personally I regard the Perth Mint as "safe as you can get". I trust it far more than any Australian bank. I think that it does Australia credit.
Totally agree Jonesy, I think The Perth Mint does australia and particularly Western Australia a very great service.
New realease http://financialsurvivalnetwork.com...ow-to-protect-yourself-before-its-too-late-2/ The PM scheme is 81% unallocated -so who knows if there is gold for all certificates.
Look the bottom line is that whilst I am personally a big fan of the home grown product and a large portion of my stack comprises of Perth Mint product, I will always feel safer in holding and storing the physical in hand myself. Whilst I wouldn't want to wager in on the fraud allegation and we have a friendly relationship here with the Perth Mint, let's not forget the fundamentals on what we do and why we do it either. Regardless of who makes the claim and what verification, assurances and proofs they can provide - unless you actually have the metal in hand you are exposed to 3rd party counter risk. Naturally, the Perth Mint would be considered one of the 'safest' 3rd party holders of your metal that many of us would probably know (and for a number of us, that's going to be good enough), but at the end of the day you have to make that choice as to where you lay your chips. Unless I had a position in 7+ figures where actually holding physical could be considered dangerous or cumbersome, there's no substitute for taking 100% ownership of physical and whilst we can debate the message of the article concerning fraud on the surface, I wouldn't let that distract me from the underlying message here that we all know and endorse : If you can't hold it, you don't own it.
Watched this youtube - good talk but did not see any explanation of any form of audit of allocated or unallocated accounts. That is the main problem outlined by Hoffman.
Here's some additional information that may assist researchers: Western Australian Consolidated Acts GOLD CORPORATION ACT 1987 - SECT 22 22 . Guarantee by Treasurer http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/gca1987188/s22.html Government Guarantee http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment_invest_in_gold_government_guarantee.aspx Precious Metals Storage http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment_invest_in_gold_storage_options.aspx Perth Mint FAQ (Allocated vs un-allocated) http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment_invest_in_gold_faq.aspx
All these guarantees are in paper. They will guarantee your gold/silver in $. This comment that in the event of a calamity and having to enact the government guarantee they will use the government cash to buy your metals back on the open market? If you believe any of this,if so, I am selling pixie dust at a very reasonable price of $2M / gram any takers? If there was a calamity that took down the PM do you think they would find gold and silver at any price. Secondly and more importantly if they store your gold what could happen that would require them to go and buy your gold back. I am of the belief that gold at this time does not evaporate or disintegrate so why would they need to buy your gold/silver back for you. Answer - they have not got it simple ?? If I am wrong I do apologize but until we see evidence (an Audit) this is no different to any other paper asset guaranteed by a government. Do you think Mr Swan will be paying you out $250k if the banks crash ? Yes maybe in numerical terms but if the banks crash that money will be the cost of a cup of coffee.
2. Unlike most custodial services, Perth Mint Certificate clients holding Allocated are able to request to see their physical bars or coins at any time and do not need to rely on third party verifications, so they do have a personal connection to their metal. 3. Perth Mint Allocated and Unallocated clients can take comfort from the fact that we operate under multiple levels of audit: a) we perform full quarterly inventory stocktakes; b) our internal and external auditors are major accounting firms; and most importantly c) those auditors are not appointed by us but by the Auditor General of the State of Western Australia, which means we have no influence over them and they report to, and their audits are reviewed by, the Auditor General. Also note that the Auditor General is not controlled or report to the Government of the day, but to the State Parliament (ie bot the Government and the opposition parties), ensuring its independence http://blog.milesfranklin.com/perth-mint-revisited-you-asked-for-it-you-got-it
The Perth Mint 2012 Auditors Report Auditor General Page 1 of 3 7th Floor Albert Facey House 469 Wellington Street Perth MAIL TO: Perth BC PO Box 8489 Perth WA 6849 TEL: 08 6557 7500 FAX: 08 6557 7600 XOFAGL001 INDEPENDENT AUDITOR'S REPORT To the Parliament of Western Australia Auditor's Responsibility As required by the Auditor General Act 2006, my responsibility is to express an opinion on the financial statements based on my audit. The audit was conducted in accordance with Australian Auditing Standards. Those Standards require compliance with relevant ethical requirements relating to audit engagements and that the audit be planned and performed to obtain reasonable assurance about whether the financial statements are free from material Opinion In my opinion, the financial statements are based on proper accounts and present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of the Gold Corporation and the consolidated entity at 30 June 2012 and their financial performance and cash flows for the year then ended. They are in accordance with Australian Accounting Standards and the Treasurer's Instructions. misstatement. Read the full report here: http://www.perthmint.com.au//documents/gold_904_annual_report_final_online.pdf
Thanks Holdfast I have been reading the Full Report and This is what is said about the deposits The number of clients, from 105 countries, increased from 20,000 to 23,000 and the value of metal held increased slightly to $3.5 billion by the end of the financial year. Of this, $565 million was held in the form of allocated metal, with the balance held as either unallocated or pool allocated product. To me that is not an audit ? This is a statement for public consumption. IMPORTANT Later in the report page 40) Assets Precious metal inventories 3,047,876 3,047,876 3,069,560 3,069,560 3,047,876 3,047,876 3,069,560 3,069,560 Liabilities Precious metal borrowings interest bearing (137,485) (137,485) (45,588) (45,588) Precious metal borrowings non- interest bearing (2,903,861) (2,903,861) (3,002,353) (3,002,353) (3,041,346) (3,041,346) (3,047,941) (3,047,941) NOTE VERY IMPORTANT !!!!! The $2,903,861 (2011: $3,002,353) of precious metal deposited by Perth Mint Depository clients (note 25) was used in operations by the consolidated entity as working inventory. So to my mind they borrow PM against the deposits ? I presume this is the unsecured. I am not an accountant but this sure looks like the gold that is unallocated is used by the PM and noted as a liability ? That is no problem unless everyone wants their gold ? This is a safe as your cash in the bank. Am I wrong ?
