After a 30 year break I got back into buying gold bullion in 2009. We registered with the Perth Mint and Ainslie bullion and went through the ID checks so we could purchase bullion in our SMSF. When I sent the ID documentation in I kept copies and sent it by registered post and I kept the stickers with the registered post ID numbers. Because we own nothing and control everything getting utility bills in our personal names was and continues to be a problem. We have a corporate trustee for the SMSF. We do not have a mail box at home it either goes to a P.O. box or we have it sent to our business address. The cars are in company names and we have the drivers licences address at our work because in the past with traffic fines and parking tickets they have to go to an address not a P.O. box and a home address is just not possible with the way we are structured. So in 2009 we purchased bullion from both the Perth Mint and Ainslie bullion a number of times no problems. Then in 2010. We again went to purchase more bullion. The Perth mint said no we have no record and the management had changed you need to start again I then explained I had the purchase documentation from 2009 and order numbers plus the signed copies of the personal ID and corporate trustee details and the registered post ID numbers of proof they had recieved them and I emailed it all to them. To no avail so I blew them off and continued to purchase from Ainslie. That year 2010 a business associate with my encouragement started purchasing bullion and went through the ID process with the Perth Mint and purchased bullion to hedge his SMSF. In 2011 I again purchased more bullion from Ainslie after again trying to get my ID details through the Perth mint. I made the mistake of not sending it registered mail and they did'nt get it...! The business associate who had purchased the previous year rang up to purchase more and wanted to use their website but was told they had no record of him. He then repeated his previous purchase orders which yes they confirmed they had those records but he would need to go through the ID process again even if he just wanted a phone order as they did not have those records, ...even though he had purchased and could only purchase through his SMSF by having gone through the ID process. In 2012 I wanted to change my corporate trustee for the SMSF plus I wanted another trust that is controlled by the SMSF to purchase more bullion through a seperate corporate trustee so I would have two entities. I chose the Australian Bullion Company in the city because it is local. We spent 4 hours in their office going through all the paper work which we had prepared and they still wanted more information from our accountant and minutes from us about changing the SMSF trustee. We then bought a small amount of bullion in both entities. That was Feb 2012. Around the same time I bought some more gold bullion from Ainslie in the old SMSF corporate trustee before closing it off. So we bought in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 from Ainslie bullion each year no problems. Come last week I wanted to purchase more bullion and I wanted to do it online using the online facility that the Australian Bullion Company offered. Being digitally challenged it wasn't easy so I rang them to get help to walk me through. Seems I needed to go through the ID process yet again!!!!!!!! When I complained they had all my details they informed me that even when I was registered again I would need my ID done again every six months!!!! Eventually I was put through to a fellow who dug up our details and was told it would be sorted. I paid for the order via direct bank transfer. This took over an hour on the phone with ABC, I'm at work trying to run a business.... Later that day I get an email telling me that they do not have my wife's details and that I need to go online and go through the whole process. All this week I have been having exchanges with them. The only way I can purchase from them is over the counter, since it is only 2 kgs of silver it seems they think I am going to pick it up as an individual and it is under $5000. When I paid for the silver they emailed me the tax invoice under the correct entity. This morning they again rang my wife and she ripped into them when they went through the song and dance. We do not live in a democratic country. The last ten years our social liberties have disappeared. I'm over this ID bull$hit. I could buy in small amounts and make an undeducted contribution in bullion to my super fund after withdrawing money as a transition to retirement pension. The advantage doing it that way is the recontribution is not counted as your taxable component. This disadvantage for asset protection is if you did get into trouble the trustee in bankrupcy could claw back any undeducted contributions over the last 5 years unless you have been doing it for a longer period so you could show you were not doing it to defeat your creditors. I will set up new accounts with Anslie because I have been able to buy every year with no problems regardless how infrequently I was doing it. I had wanted to use all three providers because of price differences. I think now I will also look at purchasing bullion from the Canadian mint and perhaps from Switzerland even if it costs me in courier charges so I can buy them using the entity bank accounts. My long term plan is to not only stack to hedge my super fund 5% but also in the entities I have outside super to probably 2020. Any suggestions to get around the ID song and dance? Why is it that Ainslie could take our details once only and operate and both the Perth Mint and ABC seem to want to keep throwing you off their systems. Its a strange way to run a business. If I was paranoid I'd say the powers that be do not want us buying bullion full stop Kind Regards non recourse
Whilst I can sympathise with the ID requirements and how stupid they seem (supposedly to stop money laundering), I think you have yourself to blame with all the legal instruments you have set up. From where I stand you've twisted yourself in so many knots in order to get the most tax benefits, and now it is hurting your bullion purchasing, which is a strange irony. The ultimately undemocratic thing is all the fact that your trusts work the way they do. That our warped legal / taxation framework works this way is exactly symptomatic of the problems you are having with ID - too many f'd up regulations and loopholes. So the very system that enables you is disabling you too.
The problem isn't the trust structures the problem is a bit like the railways in india. You put twits in charge nothing gets done. I wouldn't want to be a share holder in any of these companies that are selling bullion. I've seen people walk out in disgust. I have nothing to hide and have never cheated the tax system. This so called ID checks does nothing to stop thieves. Try getting contact information from your council when a neighbours tree lands on your roof. Privacy laws more paper work and nothing gets done. I'll keep stacking rather than fight the system I'll just go around it...legally of course Kind Regards non recourse
AUSTRAC are paying close attention to SMSF "know your customer" requirements - have a read through the draft guidelines on possible future ID requirements. It's being driven by a massive increase in rollover fraud - people setting up fake SMSF bank accounts at a bank with a stolen identiy, then rolling over the victim's retail super funds into the bank account then transferring it straight out of the country. Unfortunately bullion dealers fall under the same KYC regime - buying bullion through a trust or SMSF isn't a simple case of "here's my driver's license".
you are correct nonrecourse - our civil liberties have been eroded right from under our noses under the pretext of crime fighting and anti money laundering. it's all a croc to control everybody and ensure that nobody can protect themselves from government theft. we live in a police state - simple as.
Perth mint is the is the Govt or runs just like a govt department. Remember of all the people who get killed each year , most are killed by governments. Extend that logic to the Perth Mint. These anti laundering laws , don't work but are a great burden on the honest populace. Just like banning guns , means that law abiding citizens are defenseless against criminals. My expectations of the Perth Mint are so low , I'm never disappointed. My rant for the Day BullON.
In some cases, you're looking at very old businesses completely re-vamping their whole IT and administration systems. Whenever that happens there are always pieces of data that get accidentally "archived" or transferring the info to the new system is such a long and complicated process that it's easier for the business to deal with the problems created by not having immediate access to it. I would be looking around for new suppliers that have a better handle over their systems. Shopping around is a pain, but ultimately you get a better idea of who you're prefer to do business with. Just saw trew's comment too. Check out GoldStackers if you're in Melbourne and want F2F service.
It's like GP said. It's not the Perth Mint's fault, or even particularly the dealers fault, it is the problem of govt policy vs SMSF. And Austrack requirements isn't to stop thieves so much - it's to stop money laundering. Any conjecture beyond that is speculation or whingeing.
The loss of civil liberties in Australia is certainly not speculation or whinging as the money launders to a large extent are soverign nations and intellegence services. The over the top demand of our government while at the same time denying disclosure of all its mates deals has been discussed ad nasum on this site. When I last went to deposit bullion in my bank safe deposit box I asked about the availability of a larger box and was informed that there was a waiting list that has exploded over the last 6 months. For the smallest box there is 120 on the waiting list and the turn over of existing clients is six boxes a year. The bank is currently building a larger depository that will include an extra 1000 boxes. Kind Regards non recourse
