http://www.zerohedge.com/news/german-court-reverses-anti-nazi-era-military-restrictions ouch, it all paints a picture I wish I did not see
Nice. "Germany" and "Nazi" in the title, and some speculation. That's what we expect Seriously, I'm also doubtful about the actual reasons. Of course, once again, the terrorists had to be the scapegoat, and once again fundamental (and sensible!) laws have been changed in view of the fear about terrorism. (I'm not so afraid about that, actually. But they always say that we are afraid, so I'm afraid I kinda have to be afraid :/ ). Since 9/11 there has been a discussion about whether military jets may shoot down hijacked airliners if necessary. And now the court said: "No, but bla-bla-in catastropic situations-bla-bla maybe possibly the military might... " - Many weasily words, IMHO. They still did not make a clear statement (at least not as clear as one should expect for such a topic). I just don't know what this all is about... :|
Nice to get a local perspective, thanx ... any blurring of the line between the police and the military is disturbing. i.e. the armored vehicles we are buying here in aus or the drones being purchased in the US. Police forces around the world are beefing up, and "terry wrists" are the excuse
Actually, this action makes far more sense than people might realise. The US Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 was also repealed : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act The question to ask is why are the governments starting to repeal legislation and acts to prevent the military to take over the role of police duties? It's actually very simple. The power brokers know that the system is breaking down and once it gets beyond their control to contain, all hell is going to break loose. These legislations have nothing to do with protecting citizens from outside threats at all. They are solely about protecting the establishment from internal citizens in revolt when they find out the truth and the system collapses. It's about setting in place the legislation for control under martial law, which they already know will be required in the years ahead. You have to remember that the criminals in control are also ahead of the curve and are putting into place now the measures required to maintain order and control when anarchy is bound to break out.
How much of the post WW2 German constitution was framed and written by the Germans? (ie wholely from their own hearts and minds). How much of the post WW2 political structure was German?
Why should Germany be subject to restrictions which other EU members are not? They're currently just about the only sain country in Europe... In saying that though I really dont support army deployment in ANY country ... it's just too open to abuse by governments (not just German) on its own people!
Probably, not much in the first place (although I'm not so much an expert in politics). However, I know that many aspects of the first constitution and overall political structures took into account the "lessons learned" from the Weimar Republic and Nazi Era. This refers to the structure of a Federal Republic in general, details of the laws surrounding elections and the party system, the separation of powers, and of course, this one important aspect: A strict separation between the inner affairs (the police, in this case) and the military. Now they say that the military may be used in "catastrophic situations", and politicians say that they can not imagine such a situation. Maybe it's just a lack of phantasy, maybe it's just pretention. But in the end, it's merely a question of when the responsible people consider a situation as "catastrophic". The picture painted by auspm is the worst case. But may not be as unrealistic as it sounds: Remember the riots in London, now exactly 1 year ago. I assume that in such a case at least some politicians could not resist the temptation to place an armed military sentinel at every corner. The inhibition threshold has been lowered, and we can only hope that it will not be lowered further.
That's because Auspm was being nice In the US they had people logging every address in America into a GPS. We're talking door to door GPS logging. Source: Source: Internet Source: Source:
People are scared of the military, for good reason. But do keep in mind that it is one thing to fight foreigners, for a cause, and another thing altogether to fight your very own neighbours and relatives. This is why some (only some) Govts ultimately lose power when they turn the military on their own people. Because they require control of the military to do so. And if they lose that control, which can happen if you use military against your own people, you have a civil war. That said, there are plenty of examples where military force has been used against the population for many years. The police force is another thing altogether though, they rarely turn on their masters.
For what it's worth, I think this video slightly relates to my last post. Even if it is some nutter judge [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTIqMebXSUI[/youtube]
Every single word of the "German Grundgesetz" was written by Germans It was written in 1948/49 by the "Parlamentarischen Rat" All members where elected politicians. The only influence the allies had on the Grundgesetz was, that they made sure that no Goverment officials were elected that had a nazi past and that they gave the german Parlament the recommendation to write a new constitution. But germans decided not to write one. Instead they wrote the Grundgesetz which was suposed to apply only for a couple of year. Germans feared a real constitution would separate them from East Germany forever. If you have some historic backround about that part of German history, you might realise that most of members of the Parlamentarischen Rat were Germans who suffered under Nazi Germany and who had seen the fall of the Weimarer Republik. So the Grundgesetz includes a lot of lessons they learned by it. By the way. Those are the members that took part in writing the German Grundgesetz Adenauer, Konrad (CDU),Bauer, Hannsheinz (SPD),Becker, Max (FDP),Bergstrsser, Ludwig (SPD),Binder, Paul (CDU),Blomeyer, Adolf (CDU),Brentano, Heinrich von (CDU),Brockmann, Johannes (Zentrumspartei),Chapeaurouge, Paul de (CDU),Dehler, Thomas (FDP),Diederichs, Georg (SPD),Eberhard, Fritz (SPD),Ehlers, Adolf,(SPD),Fecht, Hermann (CDU),Finck, Albert (CDU),Gayk, Andreas (SPD),Greve, Otto Heinrich (SPD),Heiland, Rudolf-Ernst (SPD),Heile, Wilhelm (DP),Hermans, Hubert (CDU),Heuss, Theodor (FDP),Hilbert, Anton (CDU),Hoch, Fritz (SPD),Hofmeister, Werner (CDU),Hpker Aschoff, Hermann (FDP),Kaiser, Jakob (CDU),Katz, Rudolf (SPD),Kaufmann, Theophil Heinrich (CDU),Kleindinst, Josef Ferdinand (CSU),Kroll, Gerhard (CSU),Khn, Adolf (CDU),Kuhn, Karl (SPD),Laforet, Wilhelm (CSU),Lehr, Robert (CDU),Lensing, Lambert (CDU),Lbe, Paul (SPD),Lwenthal, Friedrich (SPD),Maier, Friedrich (SPD),Mangoldt, Hermann von (CDU),Mayr, Karl Sigmund (CSU),Menzel, Walter (SPD),Mcke, Willibald (SPD),Nadig, Friederike (SPD),Ollenhauer, Erich (SPD),Paul, Hugo (KPD) Pfeiffer, Anton (CSU)Reif, Hans (FDP)Reimann, Max (KPD)Renner, Heinz (KPD)Reuter, Ernst (SPD)Rnneburg, Heinrich (CDU)Rohaupter, Albert (SPD)Runge, Hermann (SPD)Schfer, Hermann (FDP)Schlr, Kaspar Gottfried (CSU)Schmid, Carlo (SPD)Schnfelder, Adolph (SPD)Schrage, Josef (CDU)Schrter, Carl (CDU)Schwalber, Josef (CSU)Seebohm, Hans-Christoph (DP)Seibold, Kaspar (CSU)Seifried, Josef (SPD)Selbert, Elisabeth (SPD)Stock, Jean (SPD)Strau, Walter (CDU)Suhr, Otto (SPD)Ssterhenn, Adolf (CDU)Wagner, Friedrich Wilhelm (SPD)Walter, Felix (CDU)Weber, Helene (CDU)Wessel, Helene (Zentrumspartei)Wirmer, Ernst (CDU)Wolff, Friedrich (SPD)Wunderlich, Hans (SPD)Zimmermann, Gustav (SPD)Zinn, Georg August (SPD) One last bit of Information. The members of SPD were the only Party that voted against Hitlers "Ermchtigungsgesetz" They said no knowing full well that they would go to prison for it, which they did direktly from Parlament
Thanks for your response to my post. I will only add though that I completely disagree with your apparently naive perception that the German Nation (on both sides of what was to be the East/West border) were the masters of their own destiny in the immediate years post WW2 without overt allied influence/shaping of both constitution and political structure. Your answer was very insightful for me in terms of where you stand on the topic though. I will TRY to limit my own input on this topic as it is a political and emotional minefield. I merely asked the questions to prompt each readers own thoughts and the responses give me food for my own thoughts. Stay well "kraut" and thanks again for your opinion.
With regard to the above members who were appointed to formulate the draft Gundgesetz for Allied approval prior to token German Parliament acceptance, the following article (at the end of page 3 and beginning of page 4) provides very good insight into their general background.......... If being German or living in Germany is meant to be some kind of measure of credibility, I guess the author of this article may measure up to some degree. http://www.iias.sinica.edu.tw/upload/conferences/20091211/20091212-0-1.swf
