2020 Collapse

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by TreasureHunter, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    My comments weren't directed at you.

    But China won't rise to be the world's permanent economic superpower because it's stuck in a political and cultural timewarp. You keep banging on about Eastern v Western cultural differences, they exist of course but in the end we're all human. Without legal protection of property rights we don't get to be fully human. China and the Chinese psyche needs to evolve before anyone can claim it's going to be any more than a nation of about 1 billion serfs and 500 million with special privileges.
     
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  2. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Ideology is the root of the problems, all ideologies are flawed. There is always a "twist" in them and usually lack ethics.

    China could have given more freedoms to their people, but instead they came up with the "social credit score", which I believe exists in the west as well. Just that we don't know about it.
    Google, Facebook and must sure be labeling and ranking people without publishing these. We are being marked like cattle on an "animal farm".

    China is terribly collectivist and a police state. And collectivism generally doesn't lead to long-term success and/or prosperity, because it tramples upon individual rights.
    What is holding China back is the authoritarian collectivist regime that it has, which has subverted (almost tonally destroyed) Chinese traditional culture.

    China is very flawed in all of these below:
    - freedom of speech, freedom to opposition, freedom for free association, freedom of movement, private property rights etc.

    What China was great at (traditional Chinese culture in all its depth), historical experience was almost totally washed away by Maosit communism. Today, China is more like a communist block than China. It is less China are more communism.

    But large countries like Russia, China, the USA can only be lead by a "strong hand", therefore perhaps just a little touch of authoritarianism is required. But finding the right balance (without becoming dictatorial and immoral) is the key. Nor Russia, nor China, nor the USA has found this balance. But I think it's the US that's closest: it has a more "humane auhtoritarian" system. Strong elitism, but at least they give "bread and circus" to the people. China and Russia are more rough.

    One can't rule a country like China or Russia with a purple hair cancel-culture Dutch-Swedish attitude that undermines itself.

    Cancel culture is overcoming everything in the west, this is why the west is so weak.
    Russia and China are more ruthless, they don't undermine themselves in the way the west does, reason why they are the "thugs" of the world with more momentum, more determination. And nobody wants to live in a Chinese-Russian dictatorial system, but because the west is self-destructing, they will prevail.
     
  3. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The CCP needs to tread a fine line between imposing authoritarian rule on their people and keeping them happy (especially with monetary gain) to retain power as there are way more people to keep happy than the CCP has troops under arms.....that said, the CCP may have crossed a line in recent days in separating parents from children who have Covid...Refer following article from SMH today.

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/o...n-separated-from-parents-20220403-p5aaec.html

    Outrage in China as COVID-positive children separated from parents
    By Brenda Goh and Engen Tham
    April 3, 2022 — 3.56pm

    Shanghai: Esther Zhao thought she was doing the right thing when she brought her 2½-year-old daughter to a Shanghai hospital with a fever on March 26.

    Three days later, Zhao was begging health authorities not to separate them after she and the little girl both tested positive for COVID-19, saying her daughter was too young to be taken away to a quarantine centre for children.

    [​IMG]
    A woman wearing a face mask to help protect from the coronavirus brings a masked child visit to a park, in Beijing on Sunday.Credit:AP

    Doctors then threatened Zhao that her daughter would be left at the hospital, while she was sent to the centre, if she did not agree to transfer the girl to the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre in the city’s Jinshan district.

    Since her daughter was sent to the centre Zhao has had only one brief message that she was fine, sent through a group chat with doctors, despite repeated pleas for information from Zhao and her husband, who is in a separate quarantine site after also testing positive.

    “There have been no photos at all... I’m so anxious, I have no idea what situation my daughter is in,” she said on Saturday through tears, still stuck at the hospital she went to last week. “The doctor said Shanghai rules is that children must be sent to designated points, adults to quarantine centres and you’re not allowed to accompany the children.”

    Zhao is panicking even more after images of crying children at a Shanghai health facility went viral in China. The anonymous poster said these were children who had tested positive for COVID-19 and been separated from their parents at the Jinshan centre.

    Click link above for full article.
     
  4. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Now I don't know what to believe about COVID-19... it seems like it is really being used to control people like prisoners on a huge labor camp. Gulag planet.

    2020:
    "flatten the curve", they said... but the curves kept coming and hitting higher and higher
    "in 1-2 months it will be over and if we flatten the curve, it will disappear".... the said
    "it's just a flu", they said... but millions died
    "COVID-19 causes severe lung disease and can destroy your lungs, heart forever"
    "you might have gone through COVID infection without symptoms and you don't even know you had it"
    "Asian people are more vulnerable to COVID"
    "there should be no lockdowns, because the masses will develop herd immunity, that way we can beat the virus"
    "heard immunity is the solution and from then on it's natural selections"
    "the tests are flawed: sometimes you will appear infected, but only because you had Coca Cola"
    "even pets and birds can spread the virus"
    "don't worry, pets can't catch Corona"

    2021:
    "this is the new normal, the Corona virus will always be with us, we will have to live with it"
    "Corona is a hoax, it doean's exist, it's just a conspiracy, don't believe it"
    "don't get the vaccine, because it will kill your sperm"
    "the vaccine contains a micro chip and they will control your brain functions through it!"
    "Corona is mixing with other viruses, we might see a Corona-HIV variant"
    "Corona is not dangerous, it has always been with us, there are so many versions of it, it's harmless"
    "get the vaccine and you will not get sick"
    "get another vaccine, because the vaccine expires in 5 months"
    "get a third vaccine, because the 3rd wave is coming"
    "most people who died of COVID didn't actually die of COVID, but other causes and the statistics lie"
    "don't take the vaccine, because it will kill you"
    "yes, take the vaccine, but you can still get sick and infect other people"
    "wear the mask and get the vaccine and respect the lockdowns, but you will still get sick, you can still die and infect others around you"

    2022:
    "Omicron will be the last variant, which will replace all other variants and the pandemic will end with Omicron"... now they said there's "Deltracron" variant (doesn't it sound like the cyborg, robot-version of a virus?)
    "there is no more reason for lockdowns and no need for further vaccinations"... but according to the stats, the cases are rising in come countries
    "no lockdowns, no vaccinations needed.... oh, but just in case you want to work at your office: make sure you have your vaccination passport with you and your mask on or you won't be allowed to work"
    "people who got cured of COVID might experience brain function abnormalities, cancer and might live less, despite having apparently recovered"
    "get ready for the 6th... 7th wave of Corona!"
    "the elites: the COVID pandemic will be over this year"
    "Bill Gates: the new pandemic is coming!"
    "UK: no more lockdowns, there are no cases of Corona, so let's get back to normal!"


    WHAT SHOULD WE BELIEVE?

    Is there just too much TV and internet?

     
  5. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The vaccines have HIV in them. Its part of the "cure", giving everyone HIV.
    Just a big accident tho.
     
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  6. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You really believe in this ZH bullshit? :D
     
  7. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I had a small talk with one of the PRC grandmas not too long ago. She got delta last year, say it's just a flu and an over reaction. Her husband got it, her daughter and son-in-law and grandson didn't get covid, not even omicron. You know our apartments are not big, so everyone is cramped into a small space. She mentioned about the lockdown back home in China even if there's a couple of cases in the whole city, in a mocking tone. I laughed along. You know, this is how we talk, laugh and laugh. :D

    The point is they sold the virus as something that came from a foreign enemy, so it must be treated as such and anyone who has been infected becomes dangerous and tainted. If you're infected, it's because you're careless and therefore you must be punished. In a way it's true, you're infected because you're careless. o_O
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  8. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Im just glad i lived through the winter of illness and death. Im pretty sure millions must have died.
     
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  9. Ag bullet

    Ag bullet Well-Known Member

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    10's of 1000's of cases daily in (pick your state).

    When are the hospitals going to be over run with people dying? asking for friend.
     
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  10. jultorsk

    jultorsk Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    https://www.thelocal.de/20220401/german-consumers-to-be-hit-by-further-price-hikes-in-supermarkets/

    According to the German Retail Association (HDE), consumers should prepare for another wave of price hikes for everyday goods and groceries.

    Even before the outbreak of war in Ukraine, prices had risen by about five per cent “across the product range” as a result of increased energy prices, HDE President Josef Sanktjohanser told the Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung on Friday.

    With Russia’s invasion hitting economies and the supply chain harder, yet another series of price increases is on the horizon.

    “The second wave of price increases is coming, and it will certainly be in double figures,” Sanktjohanser warned.
     
  11. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We had the lowest fatalities for the bat virus in the entire world. 0.02% for Omicron (same as flu) and 0.2% for delta detected cases and zero fatality below the age of 20. Why? Because we had compulsory masking indoors and outdoors. It's not the vaccine or ivermectin. Of course, the UV and no winter helps.

    When everyone puts on masks, the viral particle in the air is too little to cause severe illness.

    The vaccine weakens natural immunity, so post-vaccine rehabilitation and detoxication is very important and works.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  12. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well we know it's not ivermectin after the latest study almost puts it to bed. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/ivermectin-does-not-prevent-severe-covid-19-study

    Statements on the vaccine are more controversial and I admire the conviction of yours and others' statements. Talking about the vaccine with any sceptic often sucks you down the civil liberty blackhole as it's difficult to separate the objective science, civil liberty politics and social responsibly politics. Social responsibility clearly dominates society on this issue. I'm not sure what the ratio of anti-vax is on this forum but of people that post it seems like the majority. Personally, I have chosen not to be a martyr for this as my contribution to society my family etc is much greater and greater potential still as as an agent within the system. Much to the aghast of many here since getting vaccinated I have once again enjoyed travel, business and family and feel great and have a hopeful future. I hope that the decision taken by those on the other side is just as fruitful.

    When my brother died from a bicycle accident he was not wearing a helmet because "fuck helmets" freedom is better. Now, when his head exploded on the traffic pole (not an exaggeration - he was going down the steep part of Gooseberry Hill in Perth for anyone in the area - just after the mirrors there is a colour-painted power pole base you can see that my sister marked up and the police markings are still all around the footpath and road there) and half a dozen people need counselling for life and probably 100 other friends and family damaged from the experience it kind of makes me appreciate the helmet laws a bit more. The black-and-white of helmets is that you take a risk by not wearing one, and you carry that risk and that should be your choice. The reality is that the cost to society when something like that happens can be far greater than you should have power over. And I'm willing to accept that there is still an argument that freedom is more important than all that. OK then, the next conversation is do you go to war over that idea? Do you kill each other for not sharing it? I don't use this example as an excuse for crushing civil liberties however there is an element of Libertarian utopia expressed here that reminds me of Socialist hippy utopia when it comes to what freedoms society should and shouldn't enjoy. And the extremely complex systems our society has created to deal with these issues is being attacked by the hard-right in the same way it was being attacked by the hard-left during the 60's/70's (now they destroy it in other ways through institutions - another conversation). There is always going to be more grey between the black and white that you would like to deal with. That is why I am sceptical of anyone who utters 'matter of fact' type statements that are constantly put forth here. I treat the forum space like a pub - people shooting the shit and talking some smack because it's enjoyable. But I don't think everyone here is like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  13. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It would be nice for everyone to have freedoms but most dont.
    Most dont have the choice to protest, speak freely or have control over what goes in their own bodies.

    Im happy i have those freedoms and i appreciate it.
    If people feel safer double masked and boosted up then go for it. They can even have my share too and that will be my contribution haha.
    I couldnt ever trust any of whats going on at this point and its already gone way too far now.
    I didn't mind playing pretend when i was a kid but im not a kid anymore and dont like being treated like one. I sure dont want to uproot my whole life and everything we know about science to play pretend so thats mostly why i havent taken part in it.

    Everyone can make their own choices and they can live with the consequences in my mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  14. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    For sure, mate. Not sure how above can be said in the same breath as 'vaccines contain HIV' lol. I'll put it down to Colorado weed - it definitely kicks.
     
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  15. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Oh yeah Rocky Mountain High takes on a whole new meaning these days haha!
    Sometimes you have to pinch yourself.
     
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  16. hardyakkagold

    hardyakkagold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I would not take too much notice of heartatack, he accuses anybody who doesn't swallow his mainstream jab narrative of being on drugs, me included,
    so you are in an esteemed company JohnyBravo.

    Honestly, how shallow can some people be?
     
  17. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Aye? I’m a scientist and I’m trained to critique all ideas. You are the one who gets butthurt at criticism. What’s a forum without debate? A cult. Don’t take it personally - I don’t. Also, I’m a big fan of American weed and I get carried away on here when I’m high as well.
     
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  18. hardyakkagold

    hardyakkagold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  19. hardyakkagold

    hardyakkagold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just to let you know that Pfizer released another batch of documents on April 1, 2022… Here they are!

    Has anyone read the Pfizer documents that have been released on April 1, 2022?
    The next batch of Pfizer vaccine documents from the FDA has been produced (11,043 pages), as well as an unredacted version of the post-marketing experience report…
    The below screenshot is from Page 6 of FDA-CBER-2021-5683-0000059, as part of the Pfizer documents released. It clearly states that Pfizer had so many adverse events they had to hire 2400 new employees to process them:
    [​IMG] If anyone cares, you can find all the documents below:
    https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/125742_S1_M5_5351_c4591001-fa-interim-publications.pdf
    https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/125742_S1_M5_5351_c4591001-fa-interim-randomization.pdf
    https://phmpt.org/wp-content/upload...591001-fa-interim-randomization-sensitive.pdf
    Meanwhile, Pfizer CEO says people who ‘spread misinformation’ about the Covid vaccines which his company forces you to receive and makes tens of $billions on are “criminals”…

     
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  20. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah if this number of pro level athletes are dropping like flies in the shape of their lives, whats that mean for everyone else i wonder.
    Only time will tell but its not looking good in my eyes.
    Im sure its all just simply unprecedented (as the saying goes) and a big accident. The elites only want the best for us.

    The number of cases of covid to the triple vaxxed athletes during the Olympics really struck me as odd but the news never seemed to care.
    It was probably simply unprecedented too, let me take a wild guess.
     
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