Govcoins: The digital currencies that will transform finance

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by willrocks, May 10, 2021.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Because taxes don't fund government expenditure.
     
  2. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Right...and you think I'm crazy.

    I'd appreciate it if you explained your position in this and how you've reached such a conclusion. You sound delusional.

    Start by explaining what you believe taxes do fund...
     
  3. hawkeye1

    hawkeye1 Active Member

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    Well, I'm certainly not going to rule out the crisis, reaction to crisis part of your post. I've seen enough craziness at this point to know that it basically works the way you've outlined.

    I don't see the one-world financial system though. I mean, it's bad enough now where China and Russia don't really like the US Dollar and the US (and most other countries) have no interest in a global Chinese Yuan. And I can't foresee any crisis, financial or otherwise, that is going to change that.

    To my mind there are only 2 competitors for global currency at this point. The USD and Bitcoin. Gold would be a very distant third. And while the USD is the reigning world champion, he's now old and creaking and almost ready for the retirement home. CBDC's don't have a chance of being anything other than national currencies. And even then, I can't see a viable long-term model that could work.
     
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  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm sure I've been trying to explain it to you for the past 6 months. ;)

    Just quickly, taxes don't fund anything. Taxes are created to control the amount of money in circulation in the real economy, to force us to accept government issued fiat and to steer the community toward whatever values our politicians deem worthy of pursuing.

    I'll do the rest tomorrow.

    In the meantime, maybe skim through the Modern Monetary Theory thread. You may get your answer before I get back to you.
     
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  5. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    U have a lot of patience, I gave up a long time ago. :) I figure if people still don’t understand, it’s because they don’t want to understand.

    Milton Friedman has been trying to inform people since the 1970s with no luck. It seems governments have done a very good job at brainwashing people.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  6. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I didn't realise you spoke fluent conspiracy theorist. Maybe now we can really start to communicate.

    In your world view, who created this system where taxes are used in this way?

    Further to this, if you can hold the belief that such a system exists, why are to so critical and combative when discussing other topics relating to power, corruption and related agendas?
     
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  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I don’t.

    Governments.


    I’m only critical of positions that have little basis in logic.

    My position on taxation is simply the way the system works. Governments have a monopoly on the issuance of currency, they give authority to the banking system to create money out of thin air when they approve loans, central banks ensure that the banking system can’t collapse and taxation is the tool by which we are all forced to comply.

    There’s nothing sinister nor secretive about it so it’s not a conspiracy. It’s in plain sight. Just because most people don’t understand it doesn’t make it a conspiracy or an elitist plan. It just means they’ve not taken the time to learn about it or that they don’t want to learn about it.
     
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Hans Rosling spent his entire life trying to do the same with his Gapminder project.

    I’m willing to play my little bit in my attempt to enhance value in this world.

    Plus now that I’m a mod I have to behave myself. :eek:
     
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  9. Polar.bear.Stacker

    Polar.bear.Stacker Well-Known Member

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    Hey STKR, I would recommend reading 'What has government done to our money?' by Murray Rothbard, or watching videos by belangp on Youtube about this.
    I'm not saying I agree or disagree on this, but it may open your perspective.
     
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  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    @STKR, here you go mate, a bit more detail: The Function Taxation. Click on the red hyperlink and it'll take you to a new thread.
     
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  11. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for this.

    First, I wanna clear something up. You claim that you've been trying to explain this to me for 6 months, yet that can't be the case - I'm not sure where you get that from?

    I do appreciate the effort you've put in to explain the taxation system and I find this topic quite interesting. I believe it's extremely plausible and even probable that this is how our system works, but I disagree that it's the love-child of our own government.

    I disagree. If the majority of the population have no idea this is the system they're tireless working to support through taxation, then there is something secretive about it. The lack of education on this topic, or money itself, within our society and education systems reveals there is something sinister about it, too.

    The tax office sending you a pie chart indicating where you're taxes have been spent is also deceptive. If the people truly understood how the system was structured, would they pay tax? Probably not.

    The same could be said for every conspiracy fact out there. People don't take the time to learn about it, or they don't want to learn about it. Everybody needs their reason and very few are open to entertaining alternate beliefs when they conflict with their own.
     
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  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Well I’ve been banging on about it in the MMT thread for months, just thought some of that might’ve ended up in front of you at some stage. ;)

    Most pollies and economists don’t even understand that’s the way it works.


    I don’t know how to get from Sydney Airport to Coogee but that doesn’t mean it’s a secret. If it was a secret then I wouldn’t know about it. I know about it because I’ve taken the time to listen and read what people have been writing and saying for the past 50 years.

    I know how the tax system works, but I still pay my taxes because I don’t want to share a room with Bubba.
     
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  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Very true. Just shows how out of touch with reality they are.
     
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  14. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I understand where you're coming from, but you will learn how to get to Coogee from Sydney Airport when it's relevant to you. Taxation is relevant and central to most of us, yet we're unaware of how the system is set up. There's an element of secrecy through social conditioning to prevent this information from becoming common knowledge.

    You might be fearful of spending the night with Bubba but they can't send us all to gaol if there's widespread non-compliance. The preservation of the system is reliant on such ignorance. There's the motive to be secretive and deceptive.
     
  15. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You can call it secrecy, I just call it ignorance. Most people don't care, some people care but aren't aware because they haven't been exposed to the right information, and some know because they happened to have learned.
     
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  16. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The preservation of the system is reliant on compliance, compliance is more easily gained through ignorance. Theres nothing secretive or deceptive though.
    The issue is two fold - A - people inherently dont care so ignorance doesnt bother them and B - There is that much tax law, amendments, concessions that ignorance is gained just through an overwhelming amount of information that those passingly interested may be turned off investigating.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  17. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That could easily be changed if the education system focused on the topic. Overwhelming and complex information can be broken down into simple terms. There's no way the uninformed could be put down to ignorance alone. Our society breeds such ignorance and the system promotes it for self preservation.
     
  18. Polar.bear.Stacker

    Polar.bear.Stacker Well-Known Member

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    As an educator, I disagree. Efficient and effective earning is done through skin in the game, not through education in a lecture or classroom.
     
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  19. STKR

    STKR Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ok. I'm not referring to efficient and effective learning, I'm referring to foundational learning in secondary schooling. The type that helps mold the Norms of our society where there's a consensus of knowledge.
     
  20. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You mean you want the govt sanctioned school system to teach us about the ills of the govt sanctioned tax system?
     
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