Fake 1938 Crown

Discussion in 'Fakes & Counterfeits' started by pennys, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. pennys

    pennys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Qld
    Purchased a 1938 crown off Ebay. Expected a fake and it was fake. It's a copper/tin alloy. Nonmagnetic. 26.790g. Correct diameter. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/193334210068

    He also sells 1934 florins and he is is not alone. Most of these coins receive positive buyer feedback.

    What is the best way of dealing with these guys? Is the crown still technically legal tender?
     

    Attached Files:

    • 1.jpg
      1.jpg
      File size:
      634.3 KB
      Views:
      69
    • 2.jpg
      2.jpg
      File size:
      559 KB
      Views:
      70
    • 03.jpg
      03.jpg
      File size:
      895.7 KB
      Views:
      66
  2. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    He surely has a lot of 1938 crowns. He had sold 10+ for $80 and they all look the same in the picture.
     
  3. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    3,121
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I believe it’s still legal tender, so selling them would be a serious federal offence.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  4. madaw1

    madaw1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,166
    Likes Received:
    3,237
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great Western Country
    Very distressing that Ebay doesn't care- I know from similar experience... :eek:
     
  5. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,275
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canberra
    The username of mellonscum does certainly fit
     
    milled likes this.
  6. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,275
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canberra
    If you paid through Paypal make a claim. They are pretty aggressive about this and will get your money back
     
    dollars, GF and 66rounds like this.
  7. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    6,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    New Gulagland
    Good point. Maybe worth referring old mate and his ebay pages to the AFP.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  8. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Country Victoria Australia
    Hope I'm not off-topic here, but, that is why I always purchase Precious Metals from my LCS on the 6th Floor of the building @ the Cnr. Swanston & Collins st. Melb. (even if it takes 2 hours to get there),

    Michael & Joe & the other bloke, that PLUG is worth a special DISCOUNT. (maybe SPOT on all sales to you, LOL). _JOHNLGALT, (not my real name).
     
    66rounds and slavaja like this.
  9. Freaksta

    Freaksta Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Melbourne
    OT: why do people type in various font sizes and colours?
     
    slavaja likes this.
  10. mongrelmaple

    mongrelmaple Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Brisbane
    They gone slightly insane from watching non stop silver pumping videos for years while the price hasn’t done all that much

    I’d lose my mind as well ;)
     
    Accumulator, oziwassabi and Ipv6Ready like this.
  11. Number 47

    Number 47 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Each colour and font should be read with a different tone, accent, pitch, noise level or speed depending on font colour, size ecc.... then it makes for some fun reading.
     
    oziwassabi, JOHNLGALT and 66rounds like this.
  12. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    6,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    New Gulagland
    Go with the flow and enjoy the ride.;)
     
  13. pennys

    pennys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Qld
    I'll get my money back with PP. I purchased to 2 reasons. 1, to document. 2, to possibly send to AFP since from my reading the crown was not demonetised. Btw, I made a mistake. Coin is actually nickel silver (0% Ag). If the dies were better quality I think it would trick most people. Certainly is being sold by people who should know better https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/153814438291

    Chinese specialize in striking Crowns/Morgans/Peace dollars from real silver. The US actually gifted Morgan presses to China in the 1920s. How is a bullion dealer useful in these cases?
     
  14. pennys

    pennys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Qld
    He has sold at least 49 1934-Florins for $7525. He has sold at least 194 1938-Crowns for $18635. 94% of buyers left positive feedback for these coins.

    The seller who sold a counterfeit coin to me is coin collector Steve Forster residing in south Bendigo. He sells using 3 Ebay accounts and Paypal that are not registered in his name: mellonscum, nilocffossip, and as-76543. He has periodically bought his own items from other accounts which may indicate use of shill bidding. He was selling the odd 1930 Penny but now sells almost exclusively 1934-35 Centenary Florins and 1938 Crowns. The counterfeit coin I received contained no silver. It was sold in the Australian pre-decimal coin section of Ebay with no mention of it being a copy, replica, medallion or token. The coin I received was not the same as the (genuine) coin shown in photos. And by law the Crown is legal tender as at 2020.
     
  15. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I just made a offer of $1 for his current listing
     
  16. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Country Victoria Australia
    "How is a bullion dealer useful in these cases?".

    O.K. I'll tell you how, you are an IDIOT for buying Precious Metals on EBay.

    Get the picture $MART@$$?
     
    66rounds and slavaja like this.
  17. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    3,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Excellent work, time to report your findings to the AFP.
     
  18. kilo

    kilo Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the insight

     
    milled likes this.
  19. pennys

    pennys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Qld
    It makes very little difference. Virtually everyone selling coins and metals is a cowboy or failed used car salesman. Don't trust, verify.

    Your faith is perhaps misplaced in Bullion Now. On Youtube, they bang on about XRF and checking the height of coins and bars. Also on Youtube, how the Chinese learned to fake XRF and density years ago e.g. American Eagles
     
  20. milled

    milled Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No point buying ASEs from anywhere but the USA or a dealer in Australia with competitive premiums

    You can buy monster boxes by the pallet from APMEX if you wanted. There is no GST as it is investment grade and all in, from what I've seen, it is marginally cheaper to directly import from US if you buy bulk.

    Either way, there is no reason to buy from ebay. It is a chore sifting through what's there anyway. Most of it is ludicrously overpriced or dodgy af. The fact that people are buying 1938 crowns for $80 tells you there is a sucker born every minute. Caveat emptor.

    XRF is helpful. I've noticed some dealers will make a very fine nick in the rim of a bullion item and scan that. Chinese electroplate PMs on the base metals quite thinly in most cases and this ruse would be defeated by that technique.

    Regardless, much much better to buy here than ebay or gumtree. You are most likely not trading with a crackhead trying to pay for their next fix, almost always get a better deal and you can quickly determine safe trading partners.

    It's not safe at flea markets either. I remember one dealer with a Foy bag for sale in regional Queensland for $120. On closer inspection, the lettering was clearly in dot matrix, the colour of the bag wrong, even the wrinkles were fake, what looked like printed on wrinkles!. The most damning thing was the curvature of the flap, nothing like the genuine article. It clearly was a modern bag. When I pointed this out, the guy asked me what I would like to pay for it. So dodgy!!! Someone with integrity would take it off the market right away.

    Imagine repeatedly selling fake 1938s here...you'd be run out of town. I have to say I did buy some 1937s here years ago and the way they were packaged didn't sit that well with me and some don't weigh that well.

    On the other hand, I bought a bunch of sovs a long time ago, with some crowns and the stacker I was dealing with had weighed all the crowns and determined a small number were duds, told me and threw them in for free.

    Best to go for the less faked items. I don't buy crowns anymore for this reason and the premium for basically a bullion item in the case of the 1937. First 1938 I bought a decade ago had a massive gouge out of the rim which was only apparent when you took the coin out of its protective holder. This was from a note and coin shop no less. Dealer had graded it VF when even a lay person can see the giant dent in the rim makes it basically bullion.

    Sorry you learned the lesson the hard way pennys. (Most of us have probably been there sometime). Even though Galt is quite brusque in delivery, I think ebay is not worth it either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
    dollars, Gresham's Law and 66rounds like this.

Share This Page