Gold manipulation

Discussion in 'Gold' started by JulieW, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to me @alor your comment is the only one I can see under my PONZI post with the 3 notes in it because I have a list of commenters on here that I have BLOCKED myself from seeing because of their past misbehaviour. It makes life easier if I don't have to put up with their $#!T. I would like to put out a call for Mr. Harry Dent who made some outlandish predictions over the years for a $700, then a $400 Gold price.
    HARRY DENT 400 OR 700 GOLD  PRICE PREDICTION..jpg
     
  2. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Dent is good with demographics
    $400 gold was back in year 2004
     
  3. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to have to correct you, here he is on Kitco in 2017 in his words "Don't expect gold prices to hit $5,000 in your lifetime, said renowned economist Harry Dent. He warned that gold has to fall significantly before it starts a new bull market. “Ultimately, for gold to erase its bubble and get back to its bubble origin would be around $400 and $450,” he said.
     
  4. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Dent needs to stop drinking the bong water. The $1250 days are long gone behind us like a fart in the wind.
     
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  5. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    a decade past too fast, used to listen and read his book, but never follow anything closely... even before cryptos was online :)
     
  6. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Spot price is the method of manipulation, it's a market commodity since 70. No longer considered money in any way and not valued against the fiat dollars printed.
     
  7. prospect

    prospect Active Member

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    (Paper Futures Contracts setting the) Spot Price is the method of manipulation.;)

    There I fixed it for you !!!:D

    Hundreds of ounces of make-believe paper gold being traded for each ounce of physical gold at the Comex, and yet
    we have boneheads on here stating that that doesn't constitute price manipulation.:rolleyes:


    JonnyBravo300, perhaps you could enlighten us as to why central banks around the world are buying hundreds of tons
    of gold, if as you claim " gold is no longer considered money in any way"?:confused:

    Maybe it is to be used as paperweights?:)
     
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  8. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  9. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    China and India (rather than setting up their own contracts) is buying gold for Oil contracts and is ALL stored in Shanghai
    Iran and Russia are given Chinese Oil Contracts backed by Shanghai Gold reserves.

    Who owns the physical gold in Shanghai.... Iran/Russia or China/India?
     
  10. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    Nice one Johnny, lol. Can I quote you on that one?
     
  11. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Russian and Chinese central bank buying is the only reason why gold is going up. The last I checked, the industrial demand for gold from jewellery fabrication in China has in fact fallen as compared to a year ago. Gold as an ornament is slowly going out of fashion as income rise. People rather wear android or apple watch than gold.
     
  12. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    not sure the gold is actually to replace the fake gold delivered
    it can not be repaid in any currencies other than gold
    when the fake is in thousand of tonnes, it take years to meet that void given that the world productions is merely 2500+ tonnes
    repatriation of gold also must be met with new productions concurrently
    central banks pick up <100 tonnes each, every-year


    so there in pairs oil/gold oil /rmb gold/rmb etc
    the USD by-pass have been ongoing for some time
     
  13. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/...ls-contracts-at-5362-federally-insured-banks/

    As of March 31 of this year, there were 5,362 Federally-insured commercial banks and savings associations in the United States. Just two of these banks, JPMorgan Chase NA and Citibank NA control 75.7 percent of all precious metals derivatives contracts held by all of the 5,362 Federally-insured banks and savings associations. This finding comes from a report released last week by the regulator of national banks, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). (See Table 9 in the Appendix of the OCC report.)

    Commercial banks are supposed to be making safe and sound business loans to keep the U.S. economy humming, creating good-paying jobs and making America competitive around the world. But according to the latest OCC report, of the $38.57 billion held in precious metals derivative contracts by all Federally-insured banks and savings associations in the U.S., JPMorgan Chase Bank NA held $17.509 billion and Citibank NA held $11.691 billion. JPMorgan Chase is currently under a criminal probe by the U.S. Department of Justice involving precious metals trades.

    Equally concerning, the trading of precious metals derivative contracts by Federally-insured banks has grown exponentially since 2001. At that time it represented less than $5 billion. During the financial crisis in 2008 and 2009, precious metals derivative contracts at the banks were less than $15 billion. They have more than doubled since that time.

    The weirdness doesn’t stop there. According to the latest OCC report, JPMorgan Chase Bank NA holds $2.4 trillion in stock (equity) derivative contracts – which represents 64 percent of all stock derivative contracts held by all 5,362 Federally-insured banks in the United States. If you include the stock derivative contracts held by Citibank, Goldman Sachs Bank USA (yes, the Great Vampire Squid is allowed by its regulators to own a Federally-insured bank) and Bank of America NA, together with the stock derivative contracts held by JPMorgan Chase Bank, you have 93 percent of all equity derivative contracts held by all 5,362 Federally-insured banks in the U.S. (See Table 10 in the Appendix of the latest OCC report.)

    Why do these four banks need to trade high-risk stock derivatives in their taxpayer-backstopped, Federally-insured banks while the vast majority of other Federally-insured banks do not? There are two reasons. The first being that their lapdog regulators and a timid Congress are allowing them to do it. The second reason is that these are really high-risk Wall Street investment banks and brokerage firms in drag as staid, prudent, deposit-taking commercial banks. As a result of the repeal of the 66-year old Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 under the Wall Street-cozy administration of President Bill Clinton, these Wall Street trading behemoths are now allowed to own Federally-insured commercial banks and do pretty much anything they want with the Mom and Pop deposits held in those banks.
     
  14. systematic

    systematic Well-Known Member

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    As long as there are plenty of people that will not admit they are dumb there will be banks to do them over ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  15. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    It's the old story, gold is a way to escape theft from money-manipulating parasites (government/state), and to avoid this escape to succeed, the latter manipulate the gold price. Up when those speculators buy gold, down when they sell.
    Easiest manipulation means is the futures market-price component (no need for the gold itself), abit harder means is buying gold itself, although not that much harder, since the parasites provided themselves privileges to steal other peoples and/or create new money to do so.
    Look at golds price up lately, https://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=m1 the forward/futures component in golds price also hit a high. No coincidence.
    Now suckers are supposed to buy gold, after which they'll cancel their paper gold "order" again.
    And while this, they do the same on the real market (psychical buying). From and to their gold bank buddies, that they later on fine their easy (imagine a dealer with a customer voluntarily-on purpose buying high and selling low) profits back.
    So be aware. :p

    And that was the "why", JulieW
     
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  16. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Pirocco, are you referring to a pump and dump? If so, why don’t they do this for silver?
     
  17. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That cant be true. We have the strongest and most sound financial system ever in history. Just ask the sock puppet, he repeats it daily now.
    America is fixed! Now lets police the world! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
     
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  18. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    I am referring to the cartel of governments and world banks that are also active as london bullion market association bank.
    Those two trade gold with eachother, the governments sell their gold stock to the lbma banks at low gold prices, and buy it back from the lbma banks at high prices. Being the precise opposite of what a real gold speculator tries. Alike governments hunt losses instead of profit.
    Reality is that they do so to inflict gold speculators higher gold prices when buying gold, and lower prices when selling gold.
    Governments don't have silver stocks anymore. Apparently they decided to control silvers price alongs gold since there is a strong correlation. The method is to buy silver, inflict silver speculators higher prices, then swap the silver for gold, as in silver as a way to gold.
    And when silvers price rises more than golds, they drive up golds price, making it appear as "performing better", as to lure silver speculators away from silver to gold.

    And last, governments selling low to and buying high from lbma banks, that's easy mega profit for those lbma banks. That profit isn't intended at all, by neither of these two parties. Their real goal is to acquire gold speculators' savings (dollars/fiat) that these wasted along buying higher and/or selling lower.
    So they found a nice clean method to funnel that "profit" back to the central banks that traded the gold with them: along fines, fines for market rigging. :p

    This all based on collected data spanning some decades.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  19. President Trump

    President Trump Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I may be in a somewhat unique position to shed some light on what really happens in the markets. I was an investment banking lawyer most my life. I worked for a number of large investment banking law firms including Clifford Chance, the largest banking law firm in the world. I represented all of the main Investment Banks. I then went on to work 12 years as a Director at one of the big investment banks that is often mentioned here. I worked mainly in their structured products and derivatives teams. As a lawyer It was my job to vet trades, approve trading structures and create derivatives to match them. Obviously, I did not work on my own, these banks have huge legal and compliance departments. One of the main jobs of the human beings within these departments, as well as the Credit risk department, is to look for activity that may contain regulatory or reputational risk. I would say, at the top of the list was collusion and manipulation. The engine of the Investment Banking system is the trading floor, it is motivated by greed and there are abundant ways to collude with traders at other banks or otherwise manipulate prices. The Banks don’t turn a blind eye to this, the “back office” of the bank has many more employees than the trading floor. These are all good people that want to do their jobs properly, and their jobs are to protect the reputation of the bank and ensure the bank runs in accordance with the rules and regulations that govern it. Why do the banks care so much about this? Because Investment banks are wholesalers of risk and money they are trusted to be on both side of most trades and trusted that they are not manipulating prices. If they lose this trust they have no business. A much smaller part of an investment bank is the activities conducted on their own behalf, proprietary trading. There is much less of this than you might think for the simple reason that it eats up too much of the Banks balance sheet. There is no bank in the world with a balance sheet large enough to push a gold trade in the opposite direction of the market for any length of time. Certainly not years. Certainly not very visibly. This is the shareholder’s money.

    So where does that leave us? Huge potential for manipulation, equally impressive number of people charged with stopping it from happening. The answer is as you would expect. There are some very clever, very sneaky traders that do collude and manipulate and they can slip through the cracks. LIBOR and some of the headline scandals quoted on here are good examples. But there is no way these are institutionally condoned or even tolerated behaviour. The manipulations usually have one thing in common they are short term. Traders pushing prices around to hit option triggers, running stops using naked positions or price delays, colluding on mark to markets. They are short term because the markets, particularly for a commodity, are very transparent (everyone with a screen sees the same prices ) and more importantly everything is seen by the various back office functions.
    To be fair, market mechanisms can also have structural manipulation that can occur for a long time and become almost invisible because it is just how things are done. Such as in the LIBOR scandal but even this is just some a few bad employees within an institution rather than institutionally condoned behaviour.

    In these posts there is an overtone of “evil institution” manipulating this or that as an institutional strategy. That just isn’t happening. The banks reputations are in tatters many stupid decisions, not enough oversight, too much greed it all came together to create a huge mess but these institutions are full of people, mostly good people who are conscientious and hardworking in the extreme.
    YouTube is full of so-called experts who have never been deep within the system, they don’t understand how it works and they don’t really care to because it may prevent them from doing what they really want to do.... which is talk their own book.
     
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    ^ pretty much sums it up.
     

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