Hi from NZ - deal went very badly with Bulliondeals.co.nz (Karl Nazer)

Hi,

Sorry for the very long introduction but there is a specific reason I registered here so I can tell you about a recent deal which went from bad to worse.

I'm located in NZ and a late starter to this bullion stuff but I'm taking the time and doing my homework and learned a lot in the last few months.
I see myself firstly as a stacker as I have to build up a core base of generic coins/bullions to store the value before the next economic crisis hits.

I've found this site reading Zerohedge.com when someone mentioned the quality issues with the milky spots specifically with canadian silver maples and pointed to this site.
Canadian silver maples seemed the best value for money at that time but I decided against them and was looking for silver products with a low premiums.
NZ is a small market with limited products and I was looking here for some recommendations for local dealers what and where to buy from.

I waited for the silver price to come down a bit and decided to make an order with one NZ based dealer well known to this site - Bulliondeals.co.nz (Karl Nazer).
And this is when the problems started and still far from over.

First the short version - yes, this is the short version;
I've ordered/paid a monster box size (500oz) for silver mid Oct. My order was not and still is not visible on their site for the whole time b/c I ordered as guest before I registered with my details.
The order made was including the free and fully insured delivery with signature trusting on their terms&conditions and guarantees - but this is not worth the paper as it seems.
I did get very little details about the status during the first three weeks or when to expect the delivery - no tracking number at all.
They promised that I will get an email 1-2 days before the delivery is due so I could be at home - that email never arrived of course.
So I was at work and emailed them asking when I finally can expect the delivery. Well, the delivery took place the day before already and was signed by a person saying being me.
I have all the proof and evidence that I was at work exactly at that time when my signature was faked by a person coming down the drive way - not from inside the house.
A police investigation was logged via the local delivery company and the actual delivery person confirmed that I was NOT the person who signed.
Bullionsdeals is since then trying to recover the money from the insurance logged with the overseas delivery company but failed so far.
It seems their back order process and declaration of the actual value has some serious risks and some short cuts were taken - and the local courier was not informed/insured for the actual value.
This might be why they can offer attractive prices by not proper insuring/declaring the real value for whatever reason.

Again, Bulliondeals failed to provide ANY details on the order - to this very day I don't have a tracking number and do not know who the overseas supplied was.
In the mean time I got some details from the local courier and the police report - not from Bulliondeals.
Karl Nazer never provided any useful details on the process nor any solution when I called him and he never emailed me under his own name - he left the whole mess to a single person in his office.
I asked them to sort their insurance claim in the background regardless of the outcome and refund me the money or re-deliver the product - no explanation.

Guess what, that doesn't mean that I got my money or a re-delivery in the mean time - more that six weeks and counting.
After more than six weeks without any real progress I lost any trust and patience and demanded my money back.
I did not receive a single word, email nor the money from them since - they went completely silent and left me hanging high and dry with Xmas approaching fast.
This is the attitude and customer commitment what one can expect from a business where trust and confidence should the top priority.
It seems that I have no other option but go through the legal process to recover my losses - but I'm sure they are covered to fight the a small customer much better than a multimillion delivery company.

I will probably write a longer review in the generic forum soon with more details and progress as this story is far from over.

Does anyone else here had deals with them and know how they handle and declare/insure high value deliveries ?
What happened when no one was at home ?
Any other advise from you fellow stacker community would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

Too be fair to whoever is the dealer, it seems it is the courier at fault. "If" there was silver in the box at all which s not in question, than it's seems it's bad luck.

Maybe dealer should sue the courier company and refund you your money.

Did you pay by credit card, if so do a charge back. Plus better to get real money back as likely silver is much cheaper that it was 6 weeks ago.

Also pro best for your dealer to deal with the insurance and get real money too.

 

Hi Ipv6Ready,

I paid via bank transfer - no CC.

The local delivery person was just the last person in the chain and was interviewed several times and is likely a potential suspect until new findings arise.
But the local courier company would have delivered via a specialized/armed delivery driver for high value packages - "IF" they were aware of the actual value.

I guess the tricky part is that you can only claim/win if you had declared/insured the actual value in the first place starting with the overseas supplier.

Cheers,
Tyler

 

sounds like an inside job !

 

should be done with an ID check. That's how perth mint does it.

 

Welcome to the forum Tyler and great to see another kiwi stacker on line

Sorry to read of your recent plight with bulliondeals and please keep us informed of the outcome

 

I'm not an expert is law. However, I believe the delivery company is at fault here. Not the bullion dealer. It's appropriate to give them a bad review based on poor customer service but your issue is with the delivery company.

Look up the company and see what if anything their terms of service says about package delivery and signatures. You may have to take them to small claims court to recover your money.

 

Hi sfstacker,

I hear you and I'm not a lawyer myself - and I know there is a difference between justice and law.
Based on the police report the local delivery process/driver were not up to the standard.

However, I had only a contract with Bulliondeals.co.nz based on their terms&conditions and their guarantees for a fully insured delivery by signature.
How and on which conditions they organize the back-oder and declare/insure it, was not in my control.
And this does not justify that they are not replying to my emails asking for any updates for more than a week now - after I finally asked for the money.

Cheers,
Tyler

 

But the member/op cannot lodge a complaint or claim direct to the courier company because the contract is between the dealer and the courier.

Also it might say the box is covered in chocolate in T&C but it does not mean much unless the dealer also paid for insured delivery?
So maybe it's time to tell them that you are going to see a lawyer. Hopefully that will prompt some kind of response.

 

Hey Tyler

PM sent

 

Totally agree with you re the contract is with the dealer and the courier company but the dealer needs to provide evidence that the goods were insured and that's where I possibly have some doubt

 

Hi Tyler
Any follow up on this matter that you are able to share on line , I'm hoping to hear that you have managed to resolve this issue

 

op has a contract with the dealer so op needs to knock on their door which he did.not communicating and leaving buyer in the dark is very not professional but I have seen this before in this industry. seems like dealer is at fault and needs to refund.

 

Thank you for the warning.
This dealer is quite active on TradeMe.

good to know his listings should be avoided.
(anyways, the prices are outrageous even on the website)

Though a bit surprised op trusted such purchase to 2d-3d tier dealer,
when there is NZ Mint, MW, Regal or MG - dealers that have some
long-term presence on the market.

 

Hi,

I guess some here were wondering how this case went - so here an update how this played out over the last 11 months.

The good thing is that this dispute is finally settled.
The bad part was the time and the effort required to get this done.

I filed a dispute claim with the Dispute Tribunal end of Dec 2016 and the hearing was scheduled for March 2017.
Despite plenty of time given to prepare, Karl Nazer asked the court - less than 24 before the hearing - to delay this hearing as he had to travel to Wellington to make a delivery.
The court denied this delay and the hearing went ahead without him where I presented my point of view and evidence.

March 2017;
The court ruled in my favour and ordered to refund the money.
As I expected, this court order was ignored and nothing happened.
Having a court order on paper is one thing but get it enforced is a different story.

May-June 2017;
I had to learn how to get this order to the next stage and had to file more papers to Bulliondeals and later to the court to start the enforcement process.
The court then tried to reach Karl Nazer and later scheduled a hearing regarding his financial means and how to repay his debt.
Only after I started the enforcement process via the court, I was offered to get a replacement delivery as they have settled their insurance claim - after 6 mounts or so.
However, I had to wait another 2-3 weeks for the delivery. I denied this and let the court to enforce and do their thing.

July-Aug 2017;
Again, Karl Nazer ignored this financial means hearing as well and the court issued a warrant to arrest for not appearing.
After realizing that this case is not going away, he applied for a re-hearing in the hope to get a better outcome. The re-hearing was granted and scheduled for early Oct 2017.
The court also ordered to refund me a small amount for my effort for the first hearing and enforcement - regardless of the outcome of the re-hearing.
As expected - this order was also ignored.

Oct 2017;
Just two days before the re-hearing - and no communication in all these months - Karl Nazer emailed me and tried to push me to take the product and settle this and to avoid the re-hearing. If not he would file a counter claim and tried to scare me that this would cost much more time and money and he would not pay that money. His lawyer advised him to ignore this and argued how the court used the words and that the referee had not the authority to rule this and that this would not stand in front of a high court - if it came to this stage. Instead of accepting the fact that this case would never go in front of a high court as this is exactly why the dispute tribunal is in place in the first place - to avoid these professional word twisters called lawyers.

I finally told him that I take the product but also insist on the granted amount otherwise I will attend the re-hearing as scheduled with or without him.
As he actually never wanted to attend the re-hearing which he asked for rather than to delay the process, he finally agreed to settle - just a few hours before the re-hearing was scheduled.

Cheers

 

Thank you for the update (it is appreciated and allows to
establish some risks in the field).
If it is possible, please let us know the outcome.

The trader stills lists some bars on TradeMe.

Once they listed a MG bar, naturally, I took an interest and
requested pictures...the listing just disappeared.

I hope they won't scam any other guys.
(The second poor bullion dealer, after Kiwibullion scam)
gK

 

there was also another story with Bulliondeals
http://bullionnz.com.p2.hostingprod.com/theft_of_bullionnz_ip_by_bulliondeals

 

Guess what I got when trying to reach the site above? LOL. _JLG.

 

Worked for me.

 

Well done Tyler for hanging in there and getting a result

Your perseverance has paid off and I salute you for taking this action against this guy

Initially had dealings with him when I first started stacking but learnt early on in the peace to cease any further purchases

Thanks for the update