Self defence in Australia (LDP)

Discussion in 'YouTube Digest' started by yennus, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    No mate you keep missing the point. The problem is that break and enters, rapes, assaults, murders happen all the time, you don't need to bring it home with you, it will come to many unasked.. As long as old mate believes that he lives in a dangerous neighbourhood and is at no risk to the public (which 99% of Australians are) he should be allowed to own a firearm for self protection purposes. Your quotes on Switzerland are irrelevent as the number of "reservists" as you call them with state owned fire arms is very high. Trust me that the amount of firearms training is not that high and I'd argue that an Australian licensed pistol owner has gone through a lot lot more hoops to obtain their weapon just to shoot at paper.

    No one is saying we need to relax the laws to where people are open carrying as neighbourhood watchmen, but having a regulated firearm, gone through the checks, one should be able to have one should the unthinkable happen and an intruder enters their home.

    Make no mistake, Australia isn't the same place it was in 1996. The world is changing very fast and we need to change with it.
     
  2. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    99.999% of live ammunition stoppages are operator error and 99.999% of the stoppages you had "regularly" were also operator error.... as the content of your article outlines. At the range, pistol stoppages even among competition shooters, the vast majority come from them tweaking loads to gain an advantage, usually with modified weapons. Ie lowering the powder to the point where it just barely cycles the action with the lowest recoil possible. Great at home when they are testing loads firing into a barrel of sand, then they rock up to am IPSC comp and wonder why their weapon keeps stopping after 100 rounds or so.

    I have fired all of those weapons you have and the amount of "live" ammunition stoppages I've had where it wasn't operator error I can count on one hand and all of them were bad primers/no powder jobies. Regardless, the minute chance a stoppage may occur in a lethal force encounter is not a reason to discourage a firearm but a reason to encourage training, range time, stoppage drills.... if you are serious enough about your safety to buy a pistol you should be serious enough to be proficient with it.
     
  3. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    99.999% of stoppages were operator error? That is a huge call and I would say ignorant, all ammo used except for the shotgun were factory loads, there was no hitting the bottom of the magazines etc that causes stoppages. You also seem to assume all people would have a basic level of competance which is not the case in reality and why there are so many people who are killed in accidents.
     
  4. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    It was going down the twenty years before that also, so was gun murders. So you see what we have here is a causation/correlation problem. Violent crime is going down but apparently we'd become like America and not Switzerland? I'd beg to differ. America has a violence problem, not a gun problem.
     
  5. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    Because you Sir are the sheepdog, and why I urged everyone on page 11 to buy his books.

    If not just read this little snippet (all but Silver Pauper), and understand the frustration the Sheepdog has to put up with when it comes to know all sheep.

    http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
     
  6. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    And don't forget that the judgement of wether that child's safety should also be done with a firearm is suitable for their guardians.....who should bear the responsibility for keeping them safe.
     
  7. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    And in 2016 if a miner poisons the water table there are consequences FOR THAT MINER. poisoning the drinking water of thousands of people to make profit and the minor chance that a bystander will get shot as a result of one defending themselves are hardly good comparisons to make and either way, blame the attacker for forcing someone to defend themselves with a gun not the defender.
     
  8. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to go back and actually read the article that YOU used to back up your point. It proves my point perfectly. Actually if you go past the first 'line' and read just the whole first sentence I think you'd wish that you hadn't used it.

    Pistol stoppages on the range are a common occurrence, and happen when the shooter causes the pistol to stop operating in the manner for which it was designed. and you will find that current worlds best practices for stoppage drill involve hitting the magazine. The old Australian Army myth of rounds causing stoppages are really only relevant to tapping the mag on a magazine change (as opposed to a stoppage drill due to the weapon failing to function as intended which an empty mag is not). Go to any high end shooting instructor these days and you'll be taught tap-rack on a stoppage.

    Why are you so intent in stopping idiots killing themselves in accidents? Guns are serious, I have no objection to safety courses, in fact should people be allowed to own a pistol for self protection I would be offering my services for training.
     
  9. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Welcome to the party Lovey80! :)
     
  10. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Yennus,

    There is no doubt in my mind that Australia is a place, of all the places I've been, that you wouldn't consider high on the priority list to own a firearm. But to take that and act on it is to live in denial. To live in denial of the threats is as grossman put it in the exert above is a pay later scheme. Sure you may go through life and never need it, you may also go through life and never need your seat belt either. The point is threat is there, although it is unseen, it is most certainly there.

    It's just that the one day you wished you had it/on in both cases could prove costly. If that day never comes then no harm done. I am yet to need either (in Australia) but be sure that I'll be wearing that seat belt tomorrow, and even though my "reasons" for owning a firearm are legitimate under current law, you better not enter my home with intent to do harm.
     
  11. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I reckon the LDP should change their name to the Worker's Party and adopt the same policy platform that they had. It's more Libertarian than the LDP's current one (but in their defence they are primarily a Classical Liberal party). Also the Liberal and Labor parties need to change their name given they aren't Liberal or don't actually support labour anymore. Completely deceptive and dishonest advertising.
     
  12. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    Well the thread topic seemed to die out fast. Maybe Big A.D. and Newtosilver realising they were sheep has made them take stock?
     
  13. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Maybe they realised you can't argue with stupid :) Also maybe they realise your chances of changing laws so you can carry a firearm for self defence in Australia are next to nil lol
     
  14. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    The thread was about ownership, not carrying. There is a big jump between storing a gun in your home and carrying. But I guess you knew that and as all your other OT angles have been thoroughly debunked it's easy to see why you'd resort to the stupid comment.
     
  15. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I hate to tell you this but my views are in line with the majority, you are a MINORITY, a very, very small minority, my comments are stupid? You seem pretty big on stupid :)
     
  16. fosinator

    fosinator Member

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    In this thread it seems you are the MINORITY.Can you show me where the majority of the population agree with your view?
     
  17. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think I found Newtosilver's polling sources :)

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V_w-kDLbl8[/youtube]
     
  18. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah you are right my views are in the minority in this thread, this is a right wing forum and I'ld expect that :) majority of the population agree with my view? The gun laws changed 20 years ago and are still going strong...... since they were introduced the number of mass shootings has gone through the floor.
     
  19. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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