I will go over a few basics here but Yennus has the best information. The reason I am posting this is because the herd is coming into the real physical market so please bear w/ me. Have been collecting MCC, Modern Chinese Coins, a few rare US coins and some Canadian silver mapleleafs for almost 2 yrs. Here is a rare silver 10 oz Mapleleaf that closes tomorrow....ebay # 190749431595. Only year of the 10 oz round and my favorite silver mapleleaf. I like MCC the best. China was not allowed to buy precious metals from 1949 to 2003. Most MCC were sold overseas to the USA, Germany (Europe) and Japan. They became very popular and have a cult like following. About 1/5th of China's population has the ability to purchase MCC. That is equal to the population of the entire USA as China has 5 times the population size. Thats alot of new buyers. Not to mention all the other people worldwide that now demand physical precious metals instead of paper. Again, for every oz of silver there are 100 oz of paper silver. The market is changing and picking up speed. It is a natural progression to go from stacking silver to collecting a few rare coins. Rarity is the best of the best bullion. They are not making anymore 1980's or 1990's MCC. Yes, there are many fakes and reproductions so be very careful. Think about it. With a huge number of buyers coming into the real silver market worldwide, how many rare coins will be available and at what price? Diversify and own bullion but some rare coins too. The MCC mintage numbers are overstated and the older silver population is much lower. An ocean of paper money is out there and growing. The rare coins are a finite number so must go up in price. Now is the time to buy. (No, I am not selling you my rare coins!)................
Correct me if i am wrong but I think Panda -Moneya is someone different than Pandamonium, and I have dealt with Panda-moneya several times and he is a top notch seller! Nice post Pandamonium !
I am not pandamoneya. That was an example of my favorite Mapleleaf. I think it is one of the rarest silver mapleleafs. OK, will not put ebay # out any more. Just contact Yennus for MCC...........
Thanks for clearing that up. Nice honest and informative post here . I think diversifying into different coins is a great thing and natural course for stackers/collectors of precious metals, it can be fun as well as an investment / preservation. Everyone has their own reason for what they choose to buy , I wish everyone here the best of luck and have fun with it! OH And Pandamonium I dont see a problem with you posting a ebay auction you are interested in ,people seem to do it all the time here, but what the hell do I know?
no problem Au-mageddon, pandamoneya has all 3 coins that i mentioned. Canadian, US, and MCC. I did not mention Perth mint as that would be preaching to the choir. I really like silver mapleleafs and the one listed has no spots, etc. It is rare. Did not want to harp on MCC too much. Basically, more buyers are coming into the silver market so if you have your eye on a rare Perth mint, russian, etc then consider buying it.
I have a different take on numismatics. I believe the world is at the crossroads of a literal financial Armageddon that will kill hundreds of millions of people. I think that people will not be speculating with numismatics, they'll be after the most precious metals they can get. Granted there will always be rich collectors, but the vast majority of people will be buying metals to survive and will not pay premiums for numismatics to save their dinner table. Sure, numi's can and have performed well but that's all happened before what's about to come. I can't part with my money to buy what is stamped on a coin in the current climate of the world.. It's like stamp collecting or memorabilia. We'll have to wait and see.
Careful. This is an assumption. Historically you could say that many numis have ignored bullion so although related are not necessarily correlated.
I agree that the world may be at crossroads of a literal financial Armageddon, which makes me want to invest in numismatics even more. a) If you look at many of the previous SHTF historical scenarios (e.g. WWII in Europe, WWII in Asia, China's Communist Revolution, etc) artworks and numismatics did very well. b) If you look at some of the other SHTF scenarios where artworks/numismatics didn't do well (e.g. Sudan, Congo, Kosovo, etc), even bullion lost its value. I think Gold Pelican said it best last time: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-25402-are-numismatics-a-good-investment-in-bad-times.html "Best thing to do would be to look at what happened in Weimar Germany with collectibles. If I had a can of beans to sell, and one guy had a Kook and one guy had a generic Buffalo, the Kook guy would be eating beans that night."
I doubt that it is natural though I've bought some numismatic bullion ... because price was good and I liked what I got. As of China "not making any more" - these guys can initiate reminting of the MCC anytime in the future ... Not possible one would claim ... My reply would be look for Perth Mint did. Yeah, and all those millions of collectors from China would gladly buy those reminted MCC, bullion and wouldn't care for plactic capsule differences MCC is not the old good numismatic stuff which cannot be reminted because of objective reasons like technology changed, lost stamps, etc etc ...
are you sure? Siege of Leningrad - lasted 872 days ... art was worth less then loaf of bread ... 10 rouble gold could've purchased much more than painting that now worth hundreds of thousands - as far as I know one could buy a chicken for a gold coin, but with painting the same was very difficult. The reason might be more people familiar with what gold is than those who know what was art's value. Good luck in finding the market for piece of art. That's one example I know for sure. In any SHTF collectibles loose their value and premiums the fastest. WWII in Asia - I have no real life examples so may be people from the area will clarify. Agree, but the bullion was losing much less in percentage terms. Gold Pelican forgot one thing - if the guy with beans cares about art and know what the art worth. How many people have an expertise in art? Is it a sure thing to bet on such a tiny market with very few buyers? Recently I showed two silver coins to friends and asked what would they chose for the same value - one being 2012 kook, and one being lunar s1 pig - all chose kook, because it was pretty, new, etc ... no one wanted pig though it is worth more now. How would one explain in SHTF scenario the numismatic value? Dig into catalog or pull our eBay's history? One doesn't have so much time to educate market in such scenarios Just don't forget that vast majority is much less educated in collectibles than you ... though slightly more educated on what gold is
I don't think that numi's will do badly, I actually believe they'll do very very well. I just personally feel more comfortable with more weight in ounces and I suspect the great many a people who will enter pm's in the future will too. Of course there will be certain coins that will vastly outperform standard bullion, so will there be stamps etc doing the same thing.
Interesting points of view. I got to digest this and think about it. Maybe bullion will come out on top? If you are new then it is bullion. If you have a stack of bullion then a few rare coins you like. I believe in stacking food supplies too. Bought some Y2K in nitro pack about 1999. Got 5 gallon buckets of hard red wheat with zero genetically modifed. It is real food. I think it will become very valuable too as seed crop. Anyway you look at it a crisis is coming so lets get ready..............
Leningrad is an extreme example. I doubt many places on the earth will be experiencing a siege of 872-900 days and facing dire annihilation like they did. If you think that you will be in a situation like that, even gold roubles aren't going to help as much as bullets and tinned food. But I'm glad you raised the topic of Leningrad. Because even then, artworks were highly valued by both the Germans and Russians. The Hermitage even had people dedicated to the preservation of the artworks while others were scrambling. "... museum staff, artists, scientists, students and any other man or woman not fighting in the war came to help pack up the Hermitage treasures." (http://it.stlawu.edu/~rkreuzer/pmcguire/hermitage3.html) If you were one of the fortunate few tending to these artworks, you may have even been able to escape Leningrad on one of the treasure trains at the beginning or towards the end of the War. If you were stuck behind during the siege, the Hermitage was also one of the few safer places to be: " To protect those who guarded the treasures from German air raids, bomb shelters were also built in the basements of the Hermitage. " (http://it.stlawu.edu/~rkreuzer/pmcguire/hermitage3.html) Leningrad is a good example where doing your homework in what keeps its value may well have given you a safer place to live. ... I suppose there's a big difference between those who do well in hard times, and those don't do as well. The guy selling the beans is likely to know the difference between a Kook and Pig, whereas the guy offering either coin probably isn't as knowledgeable. Honestly, if/when hard times come, I'm pretty sure you will want to be selling up the chain to people that have resources and generally know their stuff, rather than down the chain to people who don't have as much, nor know as much. The guys in the Hermitage were doing much better than the guy whose house got bombed. As GeeWiz pointed out, there probably are/will-be two categories of people "Rich collectors" and the "vast majority". I'm hoping to have something that the "rich collectors" want, as well as some standard stuff that the "vast majority" accept. In regards to my situation (and everyone is different) - I know for a fact, that investing in numis has prepared me much more for a SHTF event than a pure standard bullion stack would have done. It's not a choice between going all in numis OR all in bullion... you can have both
I respect hotel 46 a lot. Though this hangup with fakes is very short sighted. Anything of value is likely to be faked - ESPECIALLY standard bullion. It is much easier to fake standard bullion coins and bars (whose designs have not changed for decades) than it is to fake numis where the design frequently (annually) changes. It is also much easier to distribute fake standard bullion coins and bars than it is to distribute fake numis. I'm sorry to report that good old predec was also counterfeited backed in the 1920s. http://www.triton.vg/Manders.html Spotting the difference between real and counterfeit is harder with these than it is with most Pandas. Now imagine, if they could make such good counterfeits back in the 1920s, the criminals that do this wicked trade can just as easily do this for standard bullion. Whereas, for many numis, the counterfeiters haven't been able to do it successfully for the 1930 Penny and similar coins - why? Partly because the collectors, investors and enthusiasts know what to look out for. These criminals were able to put into circulation an estimated 11,000 worth of florins (a lot of money back then).
Its silly to take a Realestate agents advice as verbatim impartial because he has a vested interest in the product.I think there is a parallel example here. REDBACK
